Iwan Kemp Posted February 3, 2017 Share In reply to the comments about innovating and updating etc. The basis of the frame as we know it today was launched in 2014 which makes 2017 its 3rd model year. It has seen some running updates, but no major overall or "innovation" since then and that the 2nd bottle mount is quite clever. You could also argue that putting INTERNAL routing for a dropper on a dedicated XC bike back then was quite forward thinking and ahead of the curve. Look at any other brand and you will soon realize that a frame needs to run 3 - 5 years to make money - most update a bike in its 4th year. Innovating EVERY SINGLE YEAR will mean new molds, new costs, new marketing new everything which will make bikes even more expensive. Soon we will have okes posting images of SUV's in reply to a bicycle's RRP. Back to the VIPA. There's nothing strange about it only seeing some color and rolling updates. It makes economic sense and is the way EVERYONE does it. Yes, the Scalpel and Spark are ground up new designs, but how long were the previous models running around for? As far as INNOVATION is concerned. What do you guys have in mind? A new axle standard? The way a crank mounts to a frame? Something so new that it drives up costs or forces a new standard on us? Who has been INNOVATING anyway? What counts as INNOVATION? I'd say the first suspension fork was INNOVATION. So too dual suspension bike, new suspension designs, etc. Yes, there are innovations but surely we can't expect every manufacturer to innovate every year in order for us to be happy. Do a search on YouTube for the Momsen VIPA and a Google search for the launch articles and you will soon learn that the frame wasn't bought from anywhere. The mold is owned by Momsen with the workings of the suspension courtesy of Patrick Morewood. While I have the mic... For a brand like Momsen it takes LONGER to pay off the design, R&D and mold costs as a) each frames costs more due to volume compared to the big guys b) so far there has only been one dual suspension bike in their range to recover costs against. [spez develop in-downtube SWAT. They roll that out to several models so the cost of that bit of R&D is very small per frame] This is not unique in the bike trade. BMW's F800GS has been running around largely unchanged since 2009. The VW Golf sees an update every 4-5 years and for those who haven't noticed since the Golf 5 the mid-life update has not been called that, but rather "Golf 6". Imagine Apple calling the 7s an 8 and the drama that will come from that. So, I'd say if in year 5 there is still no sign of a new and updated VIPA, then we will can all have a bit of a moan. ESPECIALLY if their marketing team tries to foil us. Oomkool, Headshot, Sportsworld.co.za and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted February 3, 2017 Share Guess Momsen shelved the 'Trail' VIPA when Victor Momsen & Co. got their grubby paws on the rotting corpse of Morewood Bikes. https://www.bikehub.co.za/features/_/gear/gear-news/preview-2016-momsen-vipa-trail-featuring-275-compatability-r3303 It's been seen around PE. Launch apparently not too far off https://www.instagram.com/p/BPCYh-1h2Rq momsenbikesnew VIPA Trail sighting .... #comingsoon #carbon #120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco-fiets Posted February 3, 2017 Share Nah............still a momsen TheJ and blackwing 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion01 Posted February 4, 2017 Share For me that comes down to preference. Personally I prefer the fact that there's no remote lockout on the rear. Having it on the front makes a lot of sense for those last minute situations (when you forget). But not having a single lever for both means you can independently control the lockout on each. And a separate remote lockout for each would just mean a cluttered cockpit! All fine and well if you REMEMBER to unlock it though, I've often found myself battered after a long often (rocky) descent because I forgot to flip the flippin' lever... you've been cycling for endless hours in high heat, your brain is frazzled, the manual activity becomes more difficult. Fact. Yes more clutter is an issue but with a 1x spec, give me a rear lock only to replace what is often fitted to control the front and I'm happy (I don't even need a front at all, I leave that open on trails). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted February 4, 2017 Share In reply to the comments about innovating and updating etc. The basis of the frame as we know it today was launched in 2014 which makes 2017 its 3rd model year. It has seen some running updates, but no major overall or "innovation" since then and that the 2nd bottle mount is quite clever. You could also argue that putting INTERNAL routing for a dropper on a dedicated XC bike back then was quite forward thinking and ahead of the curve. Look at any other brand and you will soon realize that a frame needs to run 3 - 5 years to make money - most update a bike in its 4th year. Innovating EVERY SINGLE YEAR will mean new molds, new costs, new marketing new everything which will make bikes even more expensive. Soon we will have okes posting images of SUV's in reply to a bicycle's RRP. Back to the VIPA. There's nothing strange about it only seeing some color and rolling updates. It makes economic sense and is the way EVERYONE does it. Yes, the Scalpel and Spark are ground up new designs, but how long were the previous models running around for? As far as INNOVATION is concerned. What do you guys have in mind? A new axle standard? The way a crank mounts to a frame? Something so new that it drives up costs or forces a new standard on us? Who has been INNOVATING anyway? What counts as INNOVATION? I'd say the first suspension fork was INNOVATION. So too dual suspension bike, new suspension designs, etc. Yes, there are innovations but surely we can't expect every manufacturer to innovate every year in order for us to be happy. Do a search on YouTube for the Momsen VIPA and a Google search for the launch articles and you will soon learn that the frame wasn't bought from anywhere. The mold is owned by Momsen with the workings of the suspension courtesy of Patrick Morewood. While I have the mic... For a brand like Momsen it takes LONGER to pay off the design, R&D and mold costs as a) each frames costs more due to volume compared to the big guys b) so far there has only been one dual suspension bike in their range to recover costs against. [spez develop in-downtube SWAT. They roll that out to several models so the cost of that bit of R&D is very small per frame] This is not unique in the bike trade. BMW's F800GS has been running around largely unchanged since 2009. The VW Golf sees an update every 4-5 years and for those who haven't noticed since the Golf 5 the mid-life update has not been called that, but rather "Golf 6". Imagine Apple calling the 7s an 8 and the drama that will come from that. So, I'd say if in year 5 there is still no sign of a new and updated VIPA, then we will can all have a bit of a moan. ESPECIALLY if their marketing team tries to foil us. don't really understand the level of hating on this thread... Bike looks baie mnandi in the flesh dracs and Reimond 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pellieg Posted February 4, 2017 Share http://www.intensecycles.com/sites/default/files/bikes/product/foundation-profile/ACV-FND.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted February 4, 2017 Share Lekka insightful post, Iwan Kemp ???????? Iwan Kemp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman Posted February 4, 2017 Share In reply to the comments about innovating and updating etc. The basis of the frame as we know it today was launched in 2014 which makes 2017 its 3rd model year. It has seen some running updates, but no major overall or "innovation" since then and that the 2nd bottle mount is quite clever. You could also argue that putting INTERNAL routing for a dropper on a dedicated XC bike back then was quite forward thinking and ahead of the curve. Look at any other brand and you will soon realize that a frame needs to run 3 - 5 years to make money - most update a bike in its 4th year. Innovating EVERY SINGLE YEAR will mean new molds, new costs, new marketing new everything which will make bikes even more expensive. Soon we will have okes posting images of SUV's in reply to a bicycle's RRP. Back to the VIPA. There's nothing strange about it only seeing some color and rolling updates. It makes economic sense and is the way EVERYONE does it. Yes, the Scalpel and Spark are ground up new designs, but how long were the previous models running around for? As far as INNOVATION is concerned. What do you guys have in mind? A new axle standard? The way a crank mounts to a frame? Something so new that it drives up costs or forces a new standard on us? Who has been INNOVATING anyway? What counts as INNOVATION? I'd say the first suspension fork was INNOVATION. So too dual suspension bike, new suspension designs, etc. Yes, there are innovations but surely we can't expect every manufacturer to innovate every year in order for us to be happy. Do a search on YouTube for the Momsen VIPA and a Google search for the launch articles and you will soon learn that the frame wasn't bought from anywhere. The mold is owned by Momsen with the workings of the suspension courtesy of Patrick Morewood. While I have the mic... For a brand like Momsen it takes LONGER to pay off the design, R&D and mold costs as a) each frames costs more due to volume compared to the big guys b) so far there has only been one dual suspension bike in their range to recover costs against. [spez develop in-downtube SWAT. They roll that out to several models so the cost of that bit of R&D is very small per frame] This is not unique in the bike trade. BMW's F800GS has been running around largely unchanged since 2009. The VW Golf sees an update every 4-5 years and for those who haven't noticed since the Golf 5 the mid-life update has not been called that, but rather "Golf 6". Imagine Apple calling the 7s an 8 and the drama that will come from that. So, I'd say if in year 5 there is still no sign of a new and updated VIPA, then we will can all have a bit of a moan. ESPECIALLY if their marketing team tries to foil us. I understand what you mean regarding the life cycle of a frame design regarding costs etc. And I actually like the Vipa design and am a HUGE patriot and love to support local guys. I do wonder though ( and I guys that's why a lot of guys are coming across as hating here ) - why call it a Vipa TWO ???? If they had rolled out the Vipa in new colors nobody would have whara whara' about it that much , but calling your product 2.0 in the series there should be some new things happening surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted February 4, 2017 Share I understand what you mean regarding the life cycle of a frame design regarding costs etc. And I actually like the Vipa design and am a HUGE patriarch and love to support local guys. I do wonder though ( and I guys that's why a lot of guys are coming across as hating here ) - why call it a Vipa TWO ???? If they had rolled out the Vipa in new colors nobody would have whara whara' about it that much , but calling your product 2.0 in the series there should be some new things happening surely ? The "Two" refers to the spec. Head to their site and you will see there's...TeamOneTwoEtc. Danger Dassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman Posted February 4, 2017 Share The "Two" refers to the spec. Head to their site and you will see there's...TeamOneTwoEtc. Shot , thanks for clearing that up. I hope you can understand though how that might cause some confusion amongst the general cycling population ( or maybe I am just more dof than most ). Edit : spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-Boy Posted February 4, 2017 Share Such hate at Momsen?? I like the look of the Vipa and spec seems okay. Price is of course ridiculous, but then the competition mentioned is the same. How much is a Stage or Camber or Epic?yeah they are are all expensive but the stage is sexy as heck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting slip Posted February 4, 2017 Share http://mercerbikes.co.za/ "Mister Miyagi voice" You must practice Googling my son Quick Google: "Bicycles made in the USA" http://www.usalovelist.com/american-made-bikes-trikes-high-performance-ultimate-source-list/ Not even going to do a UK Google. sorry let me rephrase that. all the top selling bikes mentioned in this thread. putting Mercer and back yard builds in comparison here is like putting Zuma in the UN meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickleberry Posted February 5, 2017 Share I absolutely love it . I think it looks great and I love the colors . I have a lot of love for The VIPA . Maybe one day bike prices will be reasonable . Eddy Gordo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting slip Posted February 5, 2017 Share http://www.intensecycles.com/sites/default/files/bikes/product/foundation-profile/ACV-FND.pngthis makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwan Kemp Posted February 20, 2017 Share Shot , thanks for clearing that up. I hope you can understand though how that might cause some confusion amongst the general cycling population ( or maybe I am just more dof than most ). Edit : spelling Yeah, can see that. Saw this on Momsen's site - tells the story from concept to reality and should address some of the comments made. http://momsenbikes.com/blog/its-seems-like-just-yesterday-the-vipa-story/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefmeister Posted February 20, 2017 Share It's not an ugly bike at all, but the name puts me off. Might as well call Griesel, Bezuidenhout or Hofmeyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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