Saddle Height?

[scubes]

When I look at other bikes I see the saddle is higher than the stem/bar. On my bike the saddle is a bit lower. Maybe I have short legs as I don't think the saddle can go higher comfortably. 

 

I'm 5'8 and my bike is a Small 29er frame. Maybe it is the bike model or geometry. My stem is slightly angled up I could flip it- it has no spacers currently and the bar is the std Silverback flat bar with no rise. 

 

Why is my saddle so low in comparison to others? Also on a mtb is one not so supposed to sit more upright on the trail? Which would mean a higher stem/bar or is this not so. 

 

I was thinking of going shorter stem 45mm or 55mm (its now 80mm) and wider bars 740mm- 780mm (up from 700mm) thinking I'd get more control and a zero stem angle but then it usually means a riser bar and that means my saddle will be lower than the stem/bar.......

[BeegMig]

All that matters is that you're comfortable.

 

But if it really bothers you go to a bikeshop that do professional fitments.

[Sepia]

As long as the leg extension is correct, cleat position, seat angle and fore/aft position of the saddle then it does not matter what it looks like.

 

How do you know if this is correct?  Go to a fitter or unless you are experienced enough, 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sepia

[Dullscalpel]

I was concerned too, as my saddle is level with my handle bars. Found out that there is nothing wrong with the setup, as long as you are comfortable

[shaper]

Go for a bike set up!

[Grey Hubs]

You can also run 160mm or 170mm cranks to gain a few mm in seat height.

Agree with above, bike fit to be sure!

[Eugene]

Your saddle should not be lower than your bars unless you are riding a chopper.

 

When sitting on your saddle, put the ball of your foot on the pedal with the crank in its lowest position. Your knee should have a very slight bend in it. If the bend is more than slight, then your saddle is too low.

 

Considering your height, your frame sounds on the small side, making your seat height problem even worse.

 

Please post a photo of yourself on the bike from the side.

 

Remember your feet shouldn't touch the ground when sitting on your saddle and a saddle that is too low is setting yourself up for knee issues.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Eugene

[Cat2forLife]

It is also an issue with frame geometry on some small 29er frames. If your setup is correct, there isn't really anything you can do about it. But have a bike fit first just to make sure.

[scubes]

Interesting.. never thought my frame was too small for me.. but maybe it is.

 

I'll send the pic etc later on, I'll try that out....

 

Your saddle should not be lower than your bars unless you are riding a chopper.

When sitting on your saddle, put the ball of your foot on the pedal with the crank in its lowest position. Your knee should have a very slight bend in it. If the bend is more than slight, then your saddle is too low.

Considering your height, your frame sounds on the small side, making your seat height problem even worse.

Please post a photo of yourself on the bike from the side.

Remember your feet shouldn't touch the ground when sitting on your saddle and a saddle that is too low is setting yourself up for knee issues.

[Gerhard Gous]

Difficult to get right but the saddle must be higher than your bars, why? it allow you to put pressure on the front wheel improving traction. if it is a mtb, not sure of roadbikes

Edited April 5, 2017 by Gerhard Gous

[Jewbacca]

I'm 1m 72 and my saddle is just about level with my bars on my 29ers (smalls). 

 

I would go for a setup or just a quick set test would show you roughly how far off you are.

 

Heel on pedal spindle while crank/pedal is at 6 o'clock. Should be straight without hip rotation.

sit on the saddle and take a plumb bob over your knee. The plumb bob should hit the top of your foot over the spindle/slightly forward of that when at 3 o'clock (again without hip rotation or reaching)

 

That is a pretty basic setup but should at least be close enough to see if you are Samsonite (WAY off)...

[Kom]

Difficult to get right but the saddle must be higher than your bars, why? it allow you to put pressure on the front wheel improving traction. if it is a mtb, not sure of roadbikes

The amount of "lean-over" you achieve does directly improve the use of your core when climbing. The XC/marathon MTB'ers look like they bending over when in the flat, but are optimum for the climb, a small price to pay.

 

The Trail/Enduro MTB racers don't care about climbing hills as much, and tune their positions to the upright comfort ride, more tuned to a CoG to the rear of the bike, for coming down technical descends as fast and as in control as possible.

[Patchelicious]

Post a pic of the bike and of you sitting on the bike... it's a sure way to get a very robust debate going.

[Jewbacca]

The amount of "lean-over" you achieve does directly improve the use of your core when climbing. The XC/marathon MTB'ers look like they bending over when in the flat, but are optimum for the climb, a small price to pay.

 

The Trail/Enduro MTB racers don't care about climbing hills as much, and tune their positions to the upright comfort ride, more tuned to a CoG to the rear of the bike, for coming down technical descends as fast and as in control as possible.

Wouldn't that have more to do with stem length and bar width than saddle height?

 

Just wondering. The saddle height would create pedal efficiency and comfort, while bending at the hip and reach adjustability would be more related to stem length (and degree)  and bar width.

 

The seat tube is set at a certain angle and the rake/position of the saddle can only move so much.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Your saddle should not be lower than your bars unless you are riding a chopper.

 

When sitting on your saddle, put the ball of your foot on the pedal with the crank in its lowest position. Your knee should have a very slight bend in it. If the bend is more than slight, then your saddle is too low.

 

Considering your height, your frame sounds on the small side, making your seat height problem even worse.

 

Please post a photo of yourself on the bike from the side.

 

Remember your feet shouldn't touch the ground when sitting on your saddle and a saddle that is too low is setting yourself up for knee issues.

Frame size will not change stack height. In some cases, it may INCREASE the stack height, in which case it would make the bars even higher. His saddle would remain the same height as the measurement from BB to saddle would remain constant across frames. 

 

Small 29ers unfortunately suffer from a higher stack height relative to their 275 & 26er cousins, purely due to the size of the wheel having an effect on the length of the fork lowers and therefore resulting in a higher stack. 

 

This, together with your stem angle, means that your saddle may well be at the right position and your bars will be above or at the same level as the saddle. 

 

The only way to rectify this is to:

 

Flip the stem (thereby reducing the height of the bars)

Shorter stem (thereby reducing the effective "reach" in a seated position and also bringing the bars lower)

Remove spacers

Shorter cranks (going to 165mm cranks from 175mm cranks will allow you to increase your saddle height accordingly)

Get a frame with a shorter stack

 

That's ALSO why a lot of short XC pros run those HUGE negative deg stems - to get the bars lower, due to the higher stack height. That's also why a few manufacturers spec their small / x small bikes as 650b - because it will, by nature, have a smaller stack height, which will suit smaller riders. 

 

I know I'm notoriously known for this, but I would strongly suggest trying out a wider bar and shorter stem. This will go some way to alleviating the "problem" (not that it is a particularly large problem - you'll have to work slightly harder to weight the front in corners and get a bit further forward and down on steep or tech climbs) and at the same time give you more direct control over your steering. 

 

I wouldn't suggest a riser bar, as that would be exacerbating the problem. Putting a shorter, but lower rise stem in place will result in you having more or less the same "shape" on the bike, especially if paired with wider bars. You'll just have hands that are closer to you, but further apart from each other. 

 

In the end - if you're comfortable, don't worry about it. If you are worried about it, flip the stem. Don't get a riser bar when you do that. You'll just be at square one again. If that doesn't work, buy a shorter stem and wider bar, and marvel at the difference it makes to your ride. 

 

At 172cm you're kinda on the border of small and medium, but changing to a medium frame in and of itself won't remedy the "problem" unless you go for a frame that has a shorter stack. 

 

Good luck, and happy trails. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Myles Mayhew

[Kom]

Wouldn't that have more to do with stem length and bar width than saddle height?

 

Just wondering. The saddle height would create pedal efficiency and comfort, while bending at the hip and reach adjustability would be more related to stem length (and degree)  and bar width.

 

The seat tube is set at a certain angle and the rake/position of the saddle can only move so much.

Fully agreed, and hence my answer. Gerhard was asking a more generic question about why saddle height is generally above the handle bar, sometimes the same, rarely below.

 

The biggest mistake you can make is adjusting your saddle height and horizontal position to achieve a stack height, this is asking for either a hip, lower back or knee problem.

 

Your saddle is 100% adjusted for your knee's position when the crank is in the horizontal and fully extended positions with your feet in shoes and cleated:

1. Horizontal - a plumb line through your knee cap should intersect the axle of the pedal
2. Fully extended - a slight kink in your knee 

Adjusting your stem after that is as important to then achieve stack height/race position which can either be aggressive for the climb, or upright for comfort and downhill control.