Cyclist murdered in Fish Hoek 13/3/18 :-(

[Gen]

So they appearing on charges of possession of stolen property.... I hope that article is wrong.... or those charges are serious enough to deny bail

First 2 suspects apprehended will appear for posession of stolen property the third suspect will appear for the murder once he is officially charged.

 

 

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter/status/974516181821304832?s=19

 

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[kosmonooit]

Can you translate that for us please. My imagination (twisted Gary Larson like brain) is running away with me.   

 

 

I worked extensively with a volunteer group to educate youth who were being exposed to recreational drugs - harm reduction is one approach whereby you seek to educate such people with unbiased and factual information accepting that drug use is going to take place.  I did a lot or research and development of material, as well as field work.

 

A lot of crime such as this is drug related, so you may well be dealing with a person who has literally lost his mind.

 

The Harm Reduction approach pretty much came from Europe / The Netherlands - such as needle exchanges etc

[DJR]

I worked extensively with a volunteer group to educate youth who were being exposed to recreational drugs - harm reduction is one approach whereby you seek to educate such people with unbiased and factual information accepting that drug use is going to take place.  I did a lot or research and development of material, as well as field work.

 

A lot of crime such as this is drug related, so you may well be dealing with a person who has literally lost his mind.

 

The Harm Reduction approach pretty much came from Europe / The Netherlands - such as needle exchanges etc

Thanks, I wish we had many more people doing that.

[Gringo]

 

[The Ghost]

Snake shot is not the solution. South African law does not differentiate according to the ammo that you use, so shooting someone with snake shot, that will not even penetrate a lot of clothing, is technically the same as shooting them with a +P hollow point. The difference is that you are much less likely to survive the encounter using snake shot. A jacked up perp will often not stop once you pull the trigger, in fact the majority of times, in that situation, the perp will be within grappling distance of you and will be too close to suddenly stop because you have a gun out, so you’d better have something that may help stop them.

 

If you shoot someone, you’d better be trying to stop an attack. If you’re in that situation, you’d better know what you are doing and be using the best possible tool for the job, and that ain’t snakeshot, despite what the warrior in the gunshop may tell you, or your mate who did national service so knows about guns.

 

Do some research. There are so many examples of people getting shot in a real life situation and still continuing to attack for long enough to kill the person who shot them. I have seen people shot or stabbed multiple times who continued to operate for minutes. Don’t risk it.

 

Exactly this.

[The Ghost]

Again, if Chris Kyle as a highly trained gunman with tons of real world combat experience couldn't draw and defend himself against element of surprise, how are you going to manage it...

 

This is such a silly thing to say.

So if you cant win one scenario, you don't want a chance at winning the others? Not every attack happens like that and not every attack goes like that. There are no guarantees in life and even the best stand a chance of losing in an encounter, but if you don't try when you need to you are guaranteed to lose.

[The Ghost]

Good plan. Let's add guns to a volatile situation.

 

Has Donald Trump taken up cycling?

 

Because its better to have good people stabbed to death than bad ones shot?

[MTBeer]

Because its better to have good people stabbed to death than bad ones shot?

yes that's exactly what I meant.

[The Ghost]

yes that's exactly what I meant.

 

I'm quite sure that you didn't, and that you mean well, I just responded to your comment in kind.

The point is that at the moment people are dying either way and regardless of the tool. I would rather it was the good guys winning.

[Rob Mortimer]

Again, if Chris Kyle as a highly trained gunman with tons of real world combat experience couldn't draw and defend himself against element of surprise, how are you going to manage it...

He & Eddie were shot in the back by someone they were trying to help

Your post is idiotic

[MTBeer]

I'm quite sure that you didn't, and that you mean well, I just responded to your comment in kind.

The point is that at the moment people are dying either way and regardless of the tool. I would rather it was the good guys winning.

What I meant is - adding more violence, in the form of guns in the hands of mostly un- (and under) trained people is not going to turn out well. The good guys are going to end up getting hurt more often than not. Also guns are a big theft incentive for criminals so you could well be encouraging attacks.

[GrahamS2]

Wahoofish, sensible post. Long time ago my Dad worked in ballistics/propellents. He had FBI VHS tapes that clearly showed that unless you had the element of surprise, at close quarters you had better know what you were doing, exactly as you have put it. I doubt, if one were riding and two/three guys jump out at you you would stop, draw, safety off and get multiple shots off while being stormed. You'd have to have practiced and practiced over and over.

Yep, the basics of CQC teach that inside of 10 meters an undrawn gun is not much use against a charging assailant, unless you are highly trained or very lucky. US fields studies proved that at that range a knife is more effective than a gun.

[The Ghost]

What I meant is - adding more violence, in the form of guns in the hands of mostly un- (and under) trained people is not going to turn out well. The good guys are going to end up getting hurt more often than not. Also guns are a big theft incentive for criminals so you could well be encouraging attacks.

 

I understand.

Please can I ask for your real life experience of that, and verifiable evidence thereof?

Also, did anyone suggest that one shouldn't bother to train?

[Mojoman]

One feels overwhelmed with pride to live here when we can debate the merits of carrying a gun or a knife on a simple bike ride....

[The Ghost]

Yep, the basics of CQC teach that inside of 10 meters an undrawn gun is not much use against a charging assailant, unless you are highly trained or very lucky. US fields studies proved that at that range a knife is more effective than a gun.

 

There is no disputing some of the conclusions in those studies. 

And although they are very good for demonstrating some things, I would suggest though that there are more possibilities than those one scenario cases were. For example, you may well get skewered, but once that has happened would you want the chance to fight back, or just quit? Also, most of them never included an attempt at evasive action first, buying enough time and space, or the potential of the armed guy being the buddy of the guy getting stabbed etc.

 

A real life example - 

A mate of mine was attacked by a knife weilding thug, he managed a lucky punch which floored him and he was able to retrieve a pepper spray and keep him down; the lucky punch bought him time, but lucky punches do happen.

[The Ghost]

One feels overwhelmed with pride to live here when we can debate the merits of carrying a gun or a knife on a simple bike ride....

 

It really isn't a pleasant thing to have to be considering.