sawystertrance Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 One feels overwhelmed with pride to live here when we can debate the merits of carrying a gun or a knife on a simple bike ride.... Please would you change your avatar? I can't tell you how many times I've nearly swatted my screen.
GrahamS2 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Again, if Chris Kyle as a highly trained gunman with tons of real world combat experience couldn't draw and defend himself against element of surprise, how are you going to manage it...LOL. Because being executed by a drugged up 'friend', while setting up at a shooting range, has what exactly to do with self defense?
GrahamS2 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 There is no disputing some of the conclusions in those studies. And although they are very good for demonstrating some things, I would suggest though that there are more possibilities than those one scenario cases were. For example, you may well get skewered, but once that has happened would you want the chance to fight back, or just quit? Also, most of them never included an attempt at evasive action first, buying enough time and space, or the potential of the armed guy being the buddy of the guy getting stabbed etc. A real life example - A mate of mine was attacked by a knife weilding thug, he managed a lucky punch which floored him and he was able to retrieve a pepper spray and keep him down; the lucky punch bought him time, but lucky punches do happen.Agreed, each situation is different and those studies were conducted with trained people which over-simplifies things somewhat. My point was if you choose to carry a knife or a gun, you better learn how to handle it well. More importantly, you need to learn how to manage the situation to allow you to use it. Pulling a gun doesn't give you sudden control of a situation, like in the movies.
BurgermeesterB Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Oh man! Very bad news. We'll have to be proactive in terms of self defence and prepare ourselves! RIP and Condolences to his family.
Wannabe Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Instead of bickering, google / you tube the Martial Arts and Self Defense expert, Doug Marcaida, and see for yourself. Unless you are very fortunate, a conceal carry gun is little to no use to you if the attacker has already started his advance, and you do not have your gun in hand, and ready to fire. This from a self confessed lover of handguns and advocate for concealed carrying.
Shebeen Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 So they appearing on charges of possession of stolen property.... I hope that article is wrong.... or those charges are serious enough to deny bailwhat seems wrong, while we don't have all the info it's pretty straight forward. Cops found first two suspects either because of the bike, or tracking his phone, or both.Then they either leaned on these guys to find the source of the stolen goods, or they gave him up. Not a massive leap of faithThat's good police work, hopefully the rest of the justice system can do their job just as well.
Headshot Posted March 16, 2018 Author Posted March 16, 2018 Instead of bickering, google / you tube the Martial Arts and Self Defense expert, Doug Marcaida, and see for yourself. Unless you are very fortunate, a conceal carry gun is little to no use to you if the attacker has already started his advance, and you do not have your gun in hand, and ready to fire. This from a self confessed lover of handguns and advocate for concealed carrying.I think there is a market for heads up gun sight glasses and a helmet mounted voice activated 9mm maybe? :-)
Chingy182 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 What I meant is - adding more violence, in the form of guns in the hands of mostly un- (and under) trained people is not going to turn out well. The good guys are going to end up getting hurt more often than not. Also guns are a big theft incentive for criminals so you could well be encouraging attacks.Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society, mainly because criminals don't play by the rules and they will always get their hands on illegal weapons through smuggling channels, etc.What you essentially end up with is a society where only criminals have guns and a public that has largely been disarmed.It's interesting to note that the cities in the USA with the strictest gun laws are also the most violent... My only deterrent to having a gun and potentially using a gun is that I am not adequately protected by law to use the gun in an emergency. I don't have half a million to go defend myself in court and prove my innocence in such a case.
MTBeer Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society, mainly because criminals don't play by the rules and they will always get their hands on illegal weapons through smuggling channels, etc.What you essentially end up with is a society where only criminals have guns and a public that has largely been disarmed.It's interesting to note that the cities in the USA with the strictest gun laws are also the most violent... My only deterrent to having a gun and potentially using a gun is that I am not adequately protected by law to use the gun in an emergency. I don't have half a million to go defend myself in court and prove my innocence in such a case.Firstly I don't think you can use the US as a barometer for the behaviour of any other group of people. Secondly I never said everyone must hand in their guns.
MTBeer Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 I understand.Please can I ask for your real life experience of that, and verifiable evidence thereof?Also, did anyone suggest that one shouldn't bother to train?We live in the real world not an ideal world. You know as well as I that most people with guns are under trained.
MTBeer Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society, mainly because criminals don't play by the rules and they will always get their hands on illegal weapons through smuggling channels, etc.What you essentially end up with is a society where only criminals have guns and a public that has largely been disarmed.It's interesting to note that the cities in the USA with the strictest gun laws are also the most violent... My only deterrent to having a gun and potentially using a gun is that I am not adequately protected by law to use the gun in an emergency. I don't have half a million to go defend myself in court and prove my innocence in such a case."Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society," - worked in these countries https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/15/so-america-this-is-how-you-do-gun-control
Odinson Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society, mainly because criminals don't play by the rules and they will always get their hands on illegal weapons through smuggling channels, etc.What you essentially end up with is a society where only criminals have guns and a public that has largely been disarmed.It's interesting to note that the cities in the USA with the strictest gun laws are also the most violent... My only deterrent to having a gun and potentially using a gun is that I am not adequately protected by law to use the gun in an emergency. I don't have half a million to go defend myself in court and prove my innocence in such a case. You have a very warped perception of reality. Perhaps do some reading up on the topic (and not just on Facebook).
BuffsVintageBikes Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Get yourself one of these to carry with you while cycling. Search youtube to see its effectiveness. It's light, small & effective and better than standard pepper spray. https://www.takealot.com/piexon-guardian-angel-2-pepper-gun/PLID46871010
Geronimo Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 "Everyone handing in their guns have never worked in a society," - worked in these countries https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/15/so-america-this-is-how-you-do-gun-control These are 1st world CIVILIZED countries. Keep that in mind
Chingy182 Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 These are 1st world CIVILIZED countries. Keep that in mind Indeed.And in 3 out of those 4 countries they faced a fair amount of terrorist attacks
Geronimo Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 I worked extensively with a volunteer group to educate youth who were being exposed to recreational drugs - harm reduction is one approach whereby you seek to educate such people with unbiased and factual information accepting that drug use is going to take place. I did a lot or research and development of material, as well as field work. A lot of crime such as this is drug related, so you may well be dealing with a person who has literally lost his mind. The Harm Reduction approach pretty much came from Europe / The Netherlands - such as needle exchanges etc So do we now say shame, this guy was on drugs so he didn't know he stabbed the victim 10 times??If a drunk driver kills a rider then everyone condemns it in the strongest. The drunk driver did not go out looking for someone on a bicycle to kill but your low life, no sorry, poor drug addict who actually planned to rob and kill someone, we should not be too harsh on him. I am not saying forgive the drunk driver, but there is a vast difference between negligence,( the drunk driver), and premeditated murder.
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