Riders attacked and assaulted on Jonkershoek road (13/01/2019)

[Wannabe]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When I stop at a traffic light (even when turning) and I had just passed a cyclist, I give him enough curb space.

When a cyclist indicate (or his behavior on the bike suggest it) that he is going to turn across me, I give him the space to do it safely.

When cyclist do ride two/three/four abreast when it is not safe to do so, I will slow down behind them, and give a light tap on the horn (a "I'm behind you, get into single file", not a long "GET OUT MY WAY" honk) and finds that more often than not, the cyclist will look behind them, and then fall into single file when they see the car a few car lengths behind them, and not ontop of them.

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

[DieselnDust]

So nobody on thehub owns a car? We're all just cyclists? Or are we all cyclists first and foremost and just "car driving cyclists" when we're driving our cars?

 

I always have a cynical little giggle at hubbers slagging off "motorists" when 99.9% of hubbers are also motorists.

 

Ahhh maybe one day when we start taking responsibility for our own actions instead of blaming "them" for all the worlds ills...

 

 

well what do you identify as....?

 

IO dentify as a cyclist. I drive as a means to an end although I enjoy driving.  My mindset is cycling.

Doesn't stop me from improving my driving and compliance to the requirements to driving as laid out in the Road traffic Act.

 

the argument is not as simplistic as do you drive? well you sit in the red room

Do you cycle? well go to the green room?

 

Identifying as a cyclist requires one to develop a mindset of defensive cycling which often is interpreted as "being a tjop" on cycling forums.

As a Motorist I don't see many cyclist "being a tjop". I see many cyclists trying their utmost to ensure that I've seen them which includes wearing fugly socks.

those who can clearly be categorised as tjops are in the minority.

 

However, I see 9/10 motorists being tjops everyday. So essentially there's a whole lot more potential cycling tjops yet to find themselves. Change their behaviour as cyclists from childhood? Yes

Change their behaviour at their motor vehicle operators licensing phase? YES.

 

but if you create a cycling mindset from childhood you have better drivers and cyclists and you know what,... 3 abreast will be the norm and few will moan about it.

 

this continuous bleeting about bad cyclists on cycling forums by cyclists doesn't change anyone

[Headshot]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When I stop at a traffic light (even when turning) and I had just passed a cyclist, I give him enough curb space.

When a cyclist indicate (or his behavior on the bike suggest it) that he is going to turn across me, I give him the space to do it safely.

When cyclist do ride two/three/four abreast when it is not safe to do so, I will slow down behind them, and give a light tap on the horn (a "I'm behind you, get into single file", not a long "GET OUT MY WAY" honk) and finds that more often than not, the cyclist will look behind them, and then fall into single file when they see the car a few car lengths behind them, and not ontop of them.

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

Yes, that's all it takes and I bet most motoring cyclists do exactly the same. Eldron makes the mistake of creating a straw man to bash, but its fake, at least in your and my cases.

 

Then there is the insurance company which gives cycling motorists lower premiums because statistically they are better drivers than the non-cycling population.

[Stretch]

 

 

It's a South African problem, you put one of us in a car and the aggression just gets dialed up to 11. God help you if you cross a South African driver.

The angst towards cyclists is a world problem sadly... The difference is that in the rest of the world people vent their frustration but generally don't act on it while in SA because people are so on edge they sometimes act on it

[NickGM]

That's a very small percentage of the cycling community. Most cyclists just want to ride their bikes and enjoy the company of like minded people and get home safely, not via ICU at the nearest hospital.

Most motorists want everybody to get out of their way and carry this behaviour through to their cycling passtime

But since most cyclists are motorists too...this doesn't add up.

[Stretch]

just looked at the video. is it safe to cycle with road bike on that stretch of the road without a shoulder land?

Must say.. It's in no way how I pictured the scene in my head. I imagined a hill with a more formal main road

[Popit]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When I stop at a traffic light (even when turning) and I had just passed a cyclist, I give him enough curb space.

When a cyclist indicate (or his behavior on the bike suggest it) that he is going to turn across me, I give him the space to do it safely.

When cyclist do ride two/three/four abreast when it is not safe to do so, I will slow down behind them, and give a light tap on the horn (a "I'm behind you, get into single file", not a long "GET OUT MY WAY" honk) and finds that more often than not, the cyclist will look behind them, and then fall into single file when they see the car a few car lengths behind them, and not ontop of them.

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

 

Wannabe , that's exactly how I am regarding cyclists because I am a cyclist .

 

Not everyone who drives a car is a motorist .... they are drivers .

I consider a motorist to be someone who takes an interest in cars and driving them .

 

Generally those people are more aware and conscientious of their surrounding .

 

I am generalizing with NO proof of my opinion , except real observations after more than 26 years as a cyclist and over 35 years of being a licenced motorist / motorcyclist . 

[Wannabe]

Popit, I suspect I've got my driver license for longer than what most of the guys on this forum has been alive, and in all my years, despite my impatience and aggressive driving style, I've never run over a pedestrian or a cyclist.

I must be very lucky.....

[Eldron]

well what do you identify as....?

 

IO dentify as a cyclist. I drive as a means to an end although I enjoy driving.  My mindset is cycling.

Doesn't stop me from improving my driving and compliance to the requirements to driving as laid out in the Road traffic Act.

 

the argument is not as simplistic as do you drive? well you sit in the red room

Do you cycle? well go to the green room?

 

Identifying as a cyclist requires one to develop a mindset of defensive cycling which often is interpreted as "being a tjop" on cycling forums.

As a Motorist I don't see many cyclist "being a tjop". I see many cyclists trying their utmost to ensure that I've seen them which includes wearing fugly socks.

those who can clearly be categorised as tjops are in the minority.

 

However, I see 9/10 motorists being tjops everyday. So essentially there's a whole lot more potential cycling tjops yet to find themselves. Change their behaviour as cyclists from childhood? Yes

Change their behaviour at their motor vehicle operators licensing phase? YES.

 

but if you create a cycling mindset from childhood you have better drivers and cyclists and you know what,... 3 abreast will be the norm and few will moan about it.

 

this continuous bleeting about bad cyclists on cycling forums by cyclists doesn't change anyone

 

If you think the vast minority of cyclists are tjops and 90% of motorists are tjops then you and I have had quite different experiences!

 

3 abreast will never be the norm and people will always moan about it because 3 cyclists riding abreast is selfish, tjoppish behaviour (apart from it being illegal).

 

The answer (as always) is for both parties to try their best. Cyclists should stop jumping red lights, riding several abreast, riding in groups oblivious to cars, blowing stop streets etc and motorists should concentrate on driving, stay off their mobile phones and generally be more aware of other road users.

 

Of course a much simpler solution is bike lanes all over SA - then neither party really needs to up their game.

[Eldron]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When I stop at a traffic light (even when turning) and I had just passed a cyclist, I give him enough curb space.

When a cyclist indicate (or his behavior on the bike suggest it) that he is going to turn across me, I give him the space to do it safely.

When cyclist do ride two/three/four abreast when it is not safe to do so, I will slow down behind them, and give a light tap on the horn (a "I'm behind you, get into single file", not a long "GET OUT MY WAY" honk) and finds that more often than not, the cyclist will look behind them, and then fall into single file when they see the car a few car lengths behind them, and not ontop of them.

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

 

Winner winner.

 

If we all drove like that - and all rode with a similar mindset - life would be peachy for all.

[Icycling]

Yeah I know the exact spot - I normally put my arm out and move into the right lane a few meters before that for this exact reason. Generally when I do that motorist seem to slow down and see that yes I'm riding in the cycling lane, but I'm asking for some space and its only fair to give me a bit of space to go straight.

Correct - but maybe do this a good 100m before as its down hill. The bike lane is in the wrong place and should move to the middle of the road between the 2 lanes after the bend. No cyclist should be riding on the M3 anyway. Same in the other direction going straight instead off turn up Ou Kaapse weg - the bike lane green painted section should have been painted before the bend and not a little way up on the bend.

[The Ouzo]

In this day and age, if a car cuts you up and you want to scream expletives and give the finger you should also be prepared for some serious road rage. I'm not at all saying that is what happened in this case but this is the world we live in right now.

People have gone mad

I used to get very upset with motorists and cyclists alike when I was on the bike, then I just realised its not worth the energy and possible bodily harm.

 

Most of the time by the time youve shouted at or pulled the  bird at the person they are well passed you, just shake your head and move on.

 

But when someone hits someone then it gets real

[Dirkitech]

Yes, that's all it takes and I bet most motoring cyclists do exactly the same. Eldron makes the mistake of creating a straw man to bash, but its fake, at least in your and my cases.

 

Then there is the insurance company which gives cycling motorists lower premiums because statistically they are better drivers than the non-cycling population.

Which insurer gives lower premiums to active cyclists? Do they as for proof in any form?

[mrcg]

I think it all starts with the (incorrect) principle of possession. It seems (nearly) everybody thinks they "own" the road - whereas it actually belongs to all - EQUALLY!

BUT the defining caveat needs to be a law that states who is where in the hierarchy in terms of "protection requirement" whilst using the road.

In, for example Europe, the pedestrian always has the right of way - cars must stop and let them pass. And so the order proceeds to cyclists, horses, then to motorists (trucks come last).

In SA, motorists think they have sole use and right to the road.... and only have to tolerate other road users (and make them feel most unwelcome in the process).

Yet, as stated above, we are all motorists too! How are we treating other road users? Do we brake and stop for pedestrians at crossings? Be an example and show others what to do. Ride a wide berth around cyclists, pedestrians, slow down and stop behind them if necessary. How many do that?!

As said earlier, I am also guilty of inappropriate behaviour at times - but I am talking to and teaching myself daily to change those instances. It's a mindset!

Lastly, "road" users (in terms of evolution) were: first pedestrians, cyclists then motorists. So last in, last out   

[porqui]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When ..........

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

 

You're not on your own sir.

[Dirkitech]

I think it all starts with the (incorrect) principle of possession. It seems (nearly) everybody thinks they "own" the road - whereas it actually belongs to all - EQUALLY!

BUT the defining caveat needs to be a law that states who is where in the hierarchy in terms of "protection requirement" whilst using the road.

In, for example Europe, the pedestrian always has the right of way - cars must stop and let them pass. And so the order proceeds to cyclists, horses, then to motorists (trucks come last).

In SA, motorists think they have sole use and right to the road.... and only have to tolerate other road users (and make them feel most unwelcome in the process).

Yet, as stated above, we are all motorists too! How are we treating other road users? Do we brake and stop for pedestrians at crossings? Be an example and show others what to do. Ride a wide berth around cyclists, pedestrians, slow down and stop behind them if necessary. How many do that?!

As said earlier, I am also guilty of inappropriate behaviour at times - but I am talking to and teaching myself daily to change those instances. It's a mindset!

Lastly, "road" users (in terms of evolution) were: first pedestrians, cyclists then motorists. So last in, last out   

Regarding the bolded part, according to my understanding and implementation of the law regarding road use, there is already a defined hierarchy and it is basically behave in a way that won't endanger others. If passing too close to a cyclists endangers them - don't! If passing too close to a truck, well now you're just asking for trouble.

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