Riders attacked and assaulted on Jonkershoek road (13/01/2019)

[Stretch]

 

 

Wannabe , that's exactly how I am regarding cyclists because I am a cyclist .

 

Not everyone who drives a car is a motorist .... they are drivers .

I consider a motorist to be someone who takes an interest in cars and driving them .

 

Generally those people are more aware and conscientious of their surrounding .

 

I am generalizing with NO proof of my opinion , except real observations after more than 26 years as a cyclist and over 35 years of being a licenced motorist / motorcyclist .

Yeah no. I don't give 2 diddly squats about cars, engines or driving cars... Given the choice between driving somewhere out taking the train, the train wins every time... But I'm very aware and conscientious of my surroundings

[DieselnDust]

If you think the vast minority of cyclists are tjops and 90% of motorists are tjops then you and I have had quite different experiences!

 

3 abreast will never be the norm and people will always moan about it because 3 cyclists riding abreast is selfish, tjoppish behaviour (apart from it being illegal).

 

The answer (as always) is for both parties to try their best. Cyclists should stop jumping red lights, riding several abreast, riding in groups oblivious to cars, blowing stop streets etc and motorists should concentrate on driving, stay off their mobile phones and generally be more aware of other road users.

 

Of course a much simpler solution is bike lanes all over SA - then neither party really needs to up their game.

Europe didn't introduce cyclist protection legislation because cyclists behaved badly. It was introduced because motorists behaved badly and the result was a marked rise in fatal and severe head injuries amongst children.

The behaviour change needs to come from the groups that have the biggest impact on safety and that is not cyclists.

[Eldron]

Europe didn't introduce cyclist protection legislation because cyclists behaved badly. It was introduced because motorists behaved badly and the result was a marked rise in fatal and severe head injuries amongst children.

The behaviour change needs to come from the groups that have the biggest impact on safety and that is not cyclists.

 

That would make for some interesting reading - have you got a link?

[BigDL]

Europe didn't introduce cyclist protection legislation because cyclists behaved badly. It was introduced because motorists behaved badly and the result was a marked rise in fatal and severe head injuries amongst children.

The behaviour change needs to come from the groups that have the biggest impact on safety and that is not cyclists.

I just read that 24 cyclists have been killed on the roads in Ireland in the past two years. That in a country with only 4.6 million odd people

[peetwindhoek]

Yesterday a man (probably in his 30’s) drove too close to me and I informed him of me disliking it with hand gestures of what he probably does at night. He stopped and we had some disagreements. What shocked me most was when he said and I quote: “so what am I supposed to do, cause a head on collision because you are there! You shouldn’t be on this road, it is not safe!”

 

Edit: I should not have shown what I was thinking.

Edited January 17, 2019 by peetwindhoek

[Edge_Design]

Sure, that may be true, but...

 

As a car driver, how often do you personally experience problem cyclists. E.g. someone running a red light, leaning against your car, flipping you the bird, swearing at you, cutting you off, etc.

 

vs

 

As a cyclist, how often do you personally experience problem drivers? E.g. Someone brushing past you by a hair, not caring about about your hand signals and cutting you off from behind, deliberately forcing you off the road, etc.

 

For sure the scale is tipped towards cyclists experiencing more bad car drivers, than car drivers experiencing bad cyclists. I drive a 100km every day and cycle no more than 100km a week (in the mountain mostly), yet I can't think of a single time that I really thought a cyclist is now being a douche, but I can name a number of times I almost died on the road while cycling. I have stopped road cycling because I am tired of constantly fearing for my life. Can't say that I am afraid of cyclist costing me my life while driving.

 

It's a South African problem, you put one of us in a car and the aggression just gets dialed up to 11. God help you if you cross a South African driver.

 

 

In 100km of road riding you might encounter a few 1000 cars (assuming fairly busy roads). How many km of driving do you need to do to pass 1000+ cyclists? Your views are based on statistics more than any meaningful interpretation of the ratios of bad cyclists and bad drivers to good.

 

But you are at a much higher risk as the person on the bicycle so I went the same route as you and got rid of the road bike long ago. At least when I crash on the mountain I know it's my fault!

[DieselnDust]

That would make for some interesting reading - have you got a link?

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjR6or61_XfAhVQ0RoKHWVmCZYQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbicycledutch.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2F20%2Fhow-the-dutch-got-their-cycling-infrastructure%2F&psig=AOvVaw2ekwNohDEv1ePN0qZWlLtz&ust=1547844424837858

[DieselnDust]

I just read that 24 cyclists have been killed on the roads in Ireland in the past two years. That in a country with only 4.6 million odd people

The British Isles is not a terribly cycle friendly place. Try cycling in London Birmingham or Dublin. Cardiff isn't too bad but Swansea feels more like Holland. Maybe due to the university town nature of the place.

[Eldron]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjR6or61_XfAhVQ0RoKHWVmCZYQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbicycledutch.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F10%2F20%2Fhow-the-dutch-got-their-cycling-infrastructure%2F&psig=AOvVaw2ekwNohDEv1ePN0qZWlLtz&ust=1547844424837858

Cool link. Cycling infrastructure developed in a similar manner here in Denmark.

 

What the link doesn't mention is motorist behaviour. The motivation was environmental, health and safety.

[SwissVan]

I just read that 24 cyclists have been killed on the roads in Ireland in the past two years. That in a country with only 4.6 million odd people

Without sounding crass, that’s low imo

Have you seen how narrow their roads are, factor in dark winter days, bad weather and that probably a higher proportion of their population cycle compared to ZA and hey presto

 

In Europe on any average day there are more active cyclists than ZA during Argus and 94.7 peak season.

 

I’ve been living in Switzerland for 15 years and i suspect the cycling deaths are higher than your Ireland example, the accident and injury stats I would are way higher than deaths... not a day goes past where you don’t see some report of an accident involving cyclists.

 

We go back to SA once or twice a year on average, and I concur with the general consensus of this thread, SA drivers in general are not considerate to other road users, and many drive like idjits which shows they are not even considerate to themselves or their passengers.

 

The big difference is the violent attitude, here people won’t purposely try hurt you and tend to wait for a safe opportunity to come past ( remember the narrow roads.....) and if you flip some idjit road user the finger, chances are they won’t react or stop to discuss it further.

 

Anticipation and consideration, these should be the mantra for all road users.

 

OP, I hope you get the justice you deserve and the guys who attacked you suffer the rightful consequences.

[BigDL]

Without sounding crass, that’s low imo

Have you seen how narrow their roads are, factor in dark winter days, bad weather and that probably a higher proportion of their population cycle compared to ZA and hey presto

 

In Europe on any average day there are more active cyclists than ZA during Argus and 94.7 peak season.

 

I’ve been living in Switzerland for 15 years and i suspect the cycling deaths are higher than your Ireland example, the accident and injury stats I would are way higher than deaths... not a day goes past where you don’t see some report of an accident involving cyclists.

 

We go back to SA once or twice a year on average, and I concur with the general consensus of this thread, SA drivers in general are not considerate to other road users, and many drive like idjits which shows they are not even considerate to themselves or their passengers.

 

The big difference is the violent attitude, here people won’t purposely try hurt you and tend to wait for a safe opportunity to come past ( remember the narrow roads.....) and if you flip some idjit road user the finger, chances are they won’t react or stop to discuss it further.

 

Anticipation and consideration, these should be the mantra for all road users.

 

OP, I hope you get the justice you deserve and the guys who attacked you suffer the rightful consequences.

100% - although certainly in Northern Ireland, boys are more than happy to stop and discuss your flipping them the bird [emoji23]. Edited January 18, 2019 by BigDL

[SwissVan]

100% - although certainly in Northern Ireland, boys are more than happy to stop and discuss your flipping them the bird [emoji23].

Hehe I can imagine.... no neutral intentions ????

[Rock Guy]

In 100km of road riding you might encounter a few 1000 cars (assuming fairly busy roads). How many km of driving do you need to do to pass 1000+ cyclists? Your views are based on statistics more than any meaningful interpretation of the ratios of bad cyclists and bad drivers to good.

 

Your're right, my stats aren't great, and they are based solely on my own arguably biased opinion. That said though, I still stand by my original thoughts. I'd bet if you do a proper study and you normalize the results correctly you would find that cyclists have far more reason to be angry at drivers than drivers do to be angry at cyclists.

[GroenHoender]

How to make this work?  Hit record when things get hairy?  Where do you mount it?

 

Just get a GoPro and mount it on your helmet, let it run continually, looping recordings.

 

Best position to have, to capture actual view (as your head turns, following car or person) as opposed to have it mounted on bike or chest.

 

There was an incident, long ago, of a MTB guy who rode alone in the Helderberg MTB trail, who was confronted at gunpoint and his bike stolen.

 

The GoPro on his helmet captured everything perfectly (video was sharp and clear), which helped the SAPS to recognise the guy (who was a resident from the nearby St Louwry's Town and known for his criminal activities). 

[OneLove]

I only speak for myself, but when I am in my car, I try and treat a cyclist the way I would like motorist to treat me.

I do not "buzz" them.

I do not cut them off at traffic lights or when turning into side streets.

When I stop at a traffic light (even when turning) and I had just passed a cyclist, I give him enough curb space.

When a cyclist indicate (or his behavior on the bike suggest it) that he is going to turn across me, I give him the space to do it safely.

When cyclist do ride two/three/four abreast when it is not safe to do so, I will slow down behind them, and give a light tap on the horn (a "I'm behind you, get into single file", not a long "GET OUT MY WAY" honk) and finds that more often than not, the cyclist will look behind them, and then fall into single file when they see the car a few car lengths behind them, and not ontop of them.

 

But hey, that's just me. And I'm the first to admit, I'm not the most patient guy behind the wheel, not by a long shot.

I do the same but if they look young and fit I just hover a couple of meters behind them so they feel under pressure and do a nice interval, then I give them a thumbs up when I eventually go pass.

 

If they want ill even motor pace them too.

[Patchelicious]

https://www.news24.com/Video/SouthAfrica/News/watch-furious-motorist-attacks-cyclists-near-stellenbosch-20190118