2020 Tour de France

[kosmonooit]

School. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in SA, it would be a (although I loathe the term)grassroots approach of creating a school sport system that encourages cycling, and from their an active role from governmental sports bodies to raise awareness of the sport from there on up.

 

..

 

Top down doesn't work for this.

 

Comparing it to soccer doesn't work for this.

 

The elite level taking a figurative knee with writing on their masks doesn't work for this - the grassroots you are aiming at are not watching this on TV.

 

All that elite level can realistically do is have a strong anti-racism policy and enforce it.

 

At the high school level in certain areas things are happening , or have happened, ie the high school Spur mtb league. But at the core of this it takes dedicated and resourceful parents/guardians/adults to make it happen. To get this kids trained, To sort out their bikes. To transport them to events. And lets look at other sport 'transformations' here, any models for success?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hellwarp]

Its an international "problem" not a typically South african" one.

"You can lead a horse to water ...."

Until there is a passion for competetive cycling akin to soccer it will always be a case for donor/sponsored funding and the odd "development rider" crossing the line.

 

This may apply to all individual sports like golf, tennis, swimming etc where parent involvement and great capital/time investment is required to step a promising kid to the top of the podium.

[Christie]

A further comment on the blue collar roots of cycling in Europe:

This is one of the reasons the sport is so Euro dominated - lots of people from the lower income bracket participate in cycling in Europe. Lots of bike commuters, and then theytry their hand at racing their old commuter bikes on the weekend.

The best of them gets drafted into local teams, but life in those bottom tier teams are HARD, for little money. Race 2x per week, in rough weather against equilly tough opposition. And the local town race is often over 200km for the serious riders

I think this system produces a good feed of cyclists in Europe, but is often too harsh for middle class youngsters from countries like USA and SA to just drop into.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Christie

[Pure Savage]

I thought I would miss nothing this weekend and went camping on Friday with no cell reception. 

 

Almost parked the car on the N2 on Sunday when they said Pokemon had won and not the ski jumper! 

 

Great to see another Froome like performance!!

[TNT1]

 

Great to see another Froome like performance!!

Pogacar has asthma?

[DieselnDust]

Yes and no..

 

Council estate is still 5000 times richer than any poverty stricken township.

 

It's the bottom of the proverbial barrel in the UK, but the kids still have cars, TVs, gaming consoles etc....

 

History cannot be ignored. 'Most' black kids play football. In Africa and the UK and france. There a pulpable black stars to revere and emulate and the road seems to be more accessable and encouraged.

 

If any nation could get more black cyclists into the sport it is France. If you look at their national football team it looks as though they also have access to most French colonies in Africa, so that then broadens their net. 

 

I think the issue is much like cricket in the West Indies though. Most kids want to play basketball or sprint for sport due to them being 'americanised' via ESPN and tourism. They struggle to get the kids interested in Cricket.

 

I think the same rings true there with cycling. Here it's a different story. We can't even get a guy like Matt Beers supported properly so any sort of 'development' ends as soon as it starts.

 

 

Indeed, poor in the USA or the UK is closer to middle class in South Africa is closer to upper middle class in the rest of Africa. Poor is a very relative thing. 

Soccer is a much easier sport to get into. You just need a field and some rocks to pile to make goal posts and a ball (easier to acquire, can even make one out of straw). Its also an easier career path to earn a livable wage at club level because there's just more money in the FIFA system.

Cycling on the other hand requires equipment that has to be maintained, but there also needs to be a pathway for a rider to reach a level where they are seen by clubs, teams, selectors and can progress from there.

There isn't much cycling infrastructure in Africa. Roads aren't really the problem but rather the support infrastructure. David Kinja in Kenya was instrumental in getting Chris Froome to where he is today but not every kid in Kenya has the ability to move to South Africa and to join a tream like Barlow World, with a visionary like Douglas.

Maybe NTT is now a failure when measured against the original objectives but in order to be of use and fulfill the mandate the team first has to survive and the past 5 years have been very trying for all of the ProTour. Is the system fundamentally racist or exclusionary? I don't think so. Does racism exist within the system? Sure, its highly likely that is does as its just a microcosm of society.

Does wearing a slogan that says "end racism" fix the problem? No BUT it is a building block and many blocks are needed to build a structure.

Does having role models in a sport encourage more kids from a certain background or culture take up the sport? Not necessarily.....

Has Lewis Hamilton's success encouraged more kids to take up go-karting? No because not every Lewis has a Ron Dennis to identify their talent and take the risk on their future. South Africa has probably identified and provided a platform for black racing drivers to shine more so than the UK (The home of motorsport).

In SA specifically cycling is not a blue collar sport. It's a rich mans sport. Just compare the lifestyles of a Spaz concept store owner in Europe to that of a concept store owner in SA. The SA owner lives far closer to their target market. The barrier to entry in SA is an order of magnitude higher than in Europe.

How to solve the problem?

Maybe Slovenia provides an answer. Club support to rides who show the committment and talent. Where does the clubs get the money?

Then I look at some shop sponsored teams here in Cape Town and in Gauteng and I wonder how serious are we really about identifying talent from underprivileged communities and PD communities specifically?

 

There's a lot thats wrong with our systems here...

[Pure Savage]

Pogacar has asthma?

 

Similar to when Froome went Solo on stage 19 of Grio and put 3 minutes into everyone in the Giro. Similar gaps here. But only a little shorter.

[DieselnDust]

Yeah of course but for me this tdf i enjoyed the race from the 1st km until the last, the attacks, the solos, it was just very different this year, maybe a bigger variety of young riders that are super brave.

 

Anyways yeah what a time to be alive. I was a bit surprised that Rohan Dennis was not included this year.

 

 

There was no ITT or Team time trial in LeTour this year so he is going to the Giro instead i believe

[TNT1]

Similar to when Froome went Solo on stage 19 of Grio and put 3 minutes into everyone in the Giro. Similar gaps here. But only a little shorter.

Oh, You mean when Froome did a Floyd.

 

I'd still love to know why people find Froome's performance even remotely credible.

Edited September 21, 2020 by TNT1

[DieselnDust]

That bothers me as well, but we need to ask and understand why. I don't think its because of racism, there are perhaps a multitude of factors, all of which could probably be addressed constructively, but its a medium - long term project.

 

One thing I can say with certainty its not because black kids don't like riding bikes.

 

I'd like to hear from Doug Rhyder on this, especially from the MTN Qhubeka days ...  what happened to all those riders he brought to the party?

 

 

Dougs challenge is that sponsors want results within three years, maybe even two. Dougs dream is a risky one in that its a 10 year roadmap with an uncertain outcome and during that time he has to keep the team alive.

That means finding a balance between earning UCI points and providing enough of a platform for his young African riders to build their potential. A few have already fallen out of the plan and that is normal. What is worrying is that there doesn't appear to be a pipeline coming in anylonger...

[Opc_danny]

This was an amazing performance - the way he descended after that brutal climb was mind blowing, huge risk and that is where he made enough time to get away.

 

I enjoyed the short documentary of that stage where the day before he told his coach what he wanted to do and his coach was like (bliksem) and said to him just make sure you eat eat eat and well what an amazing outcome.

 

Must be frustrating as a cyclist to have that dark cloud on you when you able to do something out of the ordinary. Im sure Pogacar is gonna get negative love for rest of his life going forward.

 

Similar to when Froome went Solo on stage 19 of Grio and put 3 minutes into everyone in the Giro. Similar gaps here. But only a little shorter.

[DieselnDust]

Oh, You mean when Froome did a Floyd.

 

I'd still love to know why people find Froome's performance even remotely credible.

 

 

 

Don't fret it too much. If you do you'll limit your own enjoyment of the sport. Sport is filled with incredible one offs. It wasn't like he pulled a proper Landis. Loose 8min one day and the next day earn 10min back. 

[TNT1]

Don't fret it too much. If you do you'll limit your own enjoyment of the sport. Sport is filled with incredible one offs. It wasn't like he pulled a proper Landis. Loose 8min one day and the next day earn 10min back. 

Nah, I made peace with the preparation part of the sport long ago, and I love it more than ever.

[Pure Savage]

I mean, that was the last time someone one a grand tour with such a day. Most wins are the marginal gains, 20 seconds gained here and there, main rivals crashing into a snow wall or just suffering in the third week and a lot of team work. 

 

Its an incredible day, bleak I missed it live.

[TNT1]

 

 

Must be frustrating as a cyclist to have that dark cloud on you when you able to do something out of the ordinary. 

Of course Froome did go on to actually fail an anti-doping control. I know the case was dropped by UCI/wada, but of course it makes one question the performances.

[Patchelicious]

Of course Froome did go on to actually fail an anti-doping control. I know the case was dropped by UCI/wada, but of course it makes one question the performances.

Much like Impey