Patchelicious Posted August 31, 2020 Share I don't really agree with that, it's a fact. I had my phone stolen out of my hand walking on the street a few weeks ago, and when I made my statement at the police I was asked which race the alleged perpetrator was. if it was a white guy, or an Indian guy, or an Asian guy, I would still have been required to give the race, unless I wasn't sure.Yup, agreed. There is however a difference between saying, "I was robbed by 4 black men" and "I was robbed by 4 blacks". Think this is what Jewbacs was referring too rather than the actual description of the perps. Edited August 31, 2020 by Patchelicious dave303e, slickjay007, CrankShaft and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummibear Posted August 31, 2020 Share Having served and done my time in the forces and being the owner of (sporting / hunting) firearms the idea of riding with a side arm and thinking you could react fast enough in an ambush situation is ridiculous. Even highly trained personal freeze or are overcome very quickly in an active situation where there is one and only focus. Training for professionals has to be constant and rigourous. Being on a bike, clipped in? Not a chance. You'll be very lucky if you don't have your weapon used against you.Even if you see a couple of people you think of as 'bad guys' 50 meters out you then have to do a risk assessment and take proactive decisions to elevate the situation to a lethal footing. That is a big decision for a normal person and if you act in the wrong way, without strong cause, there will be chances for fatalities and long lasting repercussions across many lives. Even in a combat situation there are rules and repercussions. It's lives, not movies and you have to be utterly responsible for your actions. Agree totally with this.In most cases the riders are ambushed and have no time to react.Theres also very few practical ways to carry a firearm on a bike as its heavy.It’s useless to you if it’s in a backpack or under a tight shirt. Dirt Tracker, DJR and porqui 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertusras Posted August 31, 2020 Share Yup, agreed. There is however a difference between saying, "I was robbed by 4 black men" and "I was robbed by 4 blacks". Think this is what Jewbacs was referring too rather than the actual description of the perps. If that is the case, then I agree. Anyways, the hatred in this country is just so sad. Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted August 31, 2020 Share Yup, agreed. There is however a difference between saying, "I was robbed by 4 black men" and "I was robbed by 4 blacks". Think this is what Jewbacs was referring too rather than the actual description of the perps. Thanks Patch... Spot on. This described exactly my point bertusras, DJR and Vetplant 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Lawless Posted August 31, 2020 Share Having served and done my time in the forces and being the owner of (sporting / hunting) firearms the idea of riding with a side arm and thinking you could react fast enough in an ambush situation is ridiculous. Even highly trained personal freeze or are overcome very quickly in an active situation where there is one and only focus. Training for professionals has to be constant and rigourous. Being on a bike, clipped in? Not a chance. You'll be very lucky if you don't have your weapon used against you.Even if you see a couple of people you think of as 'bad guys' 50 meters out you then have to do a risk assessment and take proactive decisions to elevate the situation to a lethal footing. That is a big decision for a normal person and if you act in the wrong way, without strong cause, there will be chances for fatalities and long lasting repercussions across many lives. Even in a combat situation there are rules and repercussions. It's lives, not movies and you have to be utterly responsible for your actions. In any situation you look to defuse and extract with the smallest of incidents. If there is a person who wants something and you can close the threat off by complying then that is the option. If possible I'd rather give away a bike than a firearm. The reports are not conclusive as to if there was a firearm taken but if there was then that is another weapon in society and there will incidents linked directly to that. I'll caveat my comments above by saying that I am a gun owner and having access to any firearm comes with big responsibility. After all my experience it's simple, a pistol is not a close quarters weapon and in almost every case. In semi trained hands, the outcome will be not be good. I would not carry a weapon during any recreational activity in a public situation. There is a big difference between what people think they can do in a moment and what they are actually capable of. I think what happened to him was disgusting and hope the assailants are found and punished asap. I hope he recovers well and can get back to a normal life despite this. Trauma after such an event will be large despite what the victim says and guys are terrible at dealing with aftereffects. I've seen too many lives blighted by thinking they have it under control and not. Thoughts go to Nick and his family. If ever I considered carrying a firearm for self defense your post just put that to bed. Thanks for sharing your experience in such a concise and sobering manner. Group rides are probably our best defense. CrankShaft, Dirt Tracker, Vetplant and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetplant Posted August 31, 2020 Share If ever I considered carrying a firearm for self defense your post just put that to bed. Thanks for sharing your experience in such a concise and sobering manner. Group rides are probably our best defense.That, and riding in secured areas like bike parks. As for road riding, unfortunately the cradle seems to be a dog-show. So riding with a follow-vehicle is probably safest, which means riding more with a club and less solo rides. Otherwise, another consideration is doing loops in the suburb when allot of people are out-and-about, as I would hope this would discourage these types of attacks. But this isn't guaranteed either. CrankShaft, DJR and Johnny Lawless 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted August 31, 2020 Share I think that on some occasions carrying can lead to a false sense of security and therefore lead to riskier decisions. Showtime, Pure Savage, DJR and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted August 31, 2020 Share I hope these savages get what's coming to them one way or another. This is atrocious/disgusting/vile.Wasn't us. We hope Nick heals up quick. Long Wheel Base, DJR, L46 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ouzo Posted August 31, 2020 Share That, and riding in secured areas like bike parks. As for road riding, unfortunately the cradle seems to be a dog-show. So riding with a follow-vehicle is probably safest, which means riding more with a club and less solo rides. Otherwise, another consideration is doing loops in the suburb when allot of people are out-and-about, as I would hope this would discourage these types of attacks. But this isn't guaranteed either.I might have to start doing the dreaded club rides, pity as I really enjoy riding solo As for riding around the suburb, about a month back a lady was out jogging in our semi closed off suburb when she was mugged. This in a relatively safe, semi closed off (only one entrance) suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetplant Posted August 31, 2020 Share I might have to start doing the dreaded club rides, pity as I really enjoy riding solo As for riding around the suburb, about a month back a lady was out jogging in our semi closed off suburb when she was mugged. This in a relatively safe, semi closed off (only one entrance) suburb.This makes me sad. mazambaan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime Posted August 31, 2020 Share Right now the hijackers know that on the balance of probability you are not armed. There is no need to kill you before trying to take your bike and / or valuables. If we are not armed hijacking a cyclist is also not an easy way to acquire a firearm. You are dealing with people that don't value human life so escalating the violence will be a much easier progression for them than for you. Vallende Vaandel and DJR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted August 31, 2020 Share Amazing how people here are making comments assuming he was cycling ? He wasn't cycling, and it was never mentioned in any reports that he was cycling. Then how did they steal his scott MTB? Did they tie him up and then go to his and get his bike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORNE Posted August 31, 2020 Share I think that on some occasions carrying can lead to a false sense of security and therefore lead to riskier decisions.i actually used to know a guy that had a very close friend killed with his own firearm. I enquired about one of his tatoos the one day and he told me the story. This friend was licensed and carried a firearm everyday, and on the way back from work...walking down the road (not cycling,running or whatever)... got mugged, tried to get out of the situation using said firearm....and was killed with his own weapon - left for dead in the street. so ja..."we aint all rambo" - even if you went for all your classes and shoot some paper targets every now and then. Edited August 31, 2020 by morneS555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORNE Posted August 31, 2020 Share Wasn't us. We hope Nick heals up quick. ^internet winner 31 Aug 2020 Pure Savage and Rowl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craai Posted August 31, 2020 Share Amazing how people here are making comments assuming he was cycling ? He wasn't cycling, and it was never mentioned in any reports that he was cycling. Au contraire mon frère Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Lawless Posted August 31, 2020 Share Amazing how people here are making comments assuming he was cycling ? He wasn't cycling, and it was never mentioned in any reports that he was cycling. I think whether he was running or cycling is immaterial to the discussions taking place since it is relevant to a much wider set of scenarios Patchelicious and Long Wheel Base 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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