Disappearing Brakes

[Darko]

I took the bike for a service at the beginning of September. Everything seemed fine on the first ride. On the second ride, I struggled to slow down, brake lever reaches almost to the handlebar. Third ride, brake lever touching the handlebar, speed reduction, but I can't stop effectively. If I'm off the bike, and I press the lever, the wheel locks, so it does work somewhat. 

 

I take the bike to a different bike shop, guy shows me that there is no brake pad. I get a bit concerned assuming my previous service would have done that. Anyway, I have him service the bike again and the brake lever is 100% and I can stop. 

 

I've now had about 6 rides since the last service and I'm back to my brake lever touching the handlebar and not really stopping me past a certain speed. 

 

What on earth is going on? 

[Rocket-Boy]

Sounds like a bad bleed.

Probably going to need to get the LBS to bleed them for you if you cant DIY it.

[DR ◣◢]

Agree. Sounds like air in the system. When you pump the lever does it go "hard" again? 

 

If you're in JHB take the bike to Sprocket & Jack. They will definitely sort you out. 

Which brand of brakes are you using?

[Christofison]

1) There is air in the hydraulic system. Get the brakes bled.

2) You didn't bed in the new pads by squirting some water on them and doing a few hard brakes, so the pad surface may have become glazed over.

3) You're contaminating the disc & pads with whatever you're putting on the drivetrain.

4) Caliper is not 100% aligned.

5) You need larger discs and/or more powerful brakes for your weight/terrain/riding style. What brakes do you have?

6) Could be a manufacturing fault with the seals. Do you see fluid leaking at either end?

Edited October 8, 2020 by Christofison

[Darko]

I haven't tried pumping it. Will try it when I get a gap at work. 

 

It went there for the first service. 

 

I don't know. It's something generic. The bike is a loaner so I can give a dual suspension a try. So not too sure of the components on there.

 

Agree. Sounds like air in the system. When you pump the lever does it go "hard" again? 

 

If you're in JHB take the bike to Sprocket & Jack. They will definitely sort you out. 

Which brand of brakes are you using?

[Darko]

Thanks for this! 

 

2 - You're right on this. I unfortunately didn't realise I had to do this. 

3 - What could this mean? The dry lube I'm putting on the chain? 

4 - Would this not have been picked up at the services? 

5 - Mentioned above, I have no idea. 

6 - No fluid on either end. 

 

I'm about 100kg, it's a Pyga OneTen. I ride mostly around the spruit and the various trails around jbh (Cradle moon, Northern Farms, Red Barn etc). I don't really bomb it downhills - not very confident yet. 

 

1) There is air in the hydraulic system. Get the brakes bled.

2) You didn't bed in the new pads by squirting some water on them and doing a few hard brakes, so the pad surface may have become glazed over.

3) You're contaminating the disc & pads with whatever you're putting on the drivetrain.

4) Caliper is not 100% aligned.

5) You need larger discs and/or more powerful brakes for your weight/terrain/riding style. What brakes do you have?

6) Could be a manufacturing fault with the seals. Do you see fluid leaking at either end?

[Christofison]

Thanks for this! 

 

2 - You're right on this. I unfortunately didn't realise I had to do this. 

3 - What could this mean? The dry lube I'm putting on the chain? 

4 - Would this not have been picked up at the services? 

5 - Mentioned above, I have no idea. 

6 - No fluid on either end. 

 

I'm about 100kg, it's a Pyga OneTen. I ride mostly around the spruit and the various trails around jbh (Cradle moon, Northern Farms, Red Barn etc). I don't really bomb it downhills - not very confident yet. 

To fix the glazed pads, take them out and sand them down on a flat surface until they're not shiny anymore. Then put them back in and bed in as above.

Dry lube shouldn't get onto the disc. Although when scrubbing my cassette clean, I always clean the disc with brake cleaner after.

Mechanics are rushing to get bikes serviced and out the door. Time is money. Also pretty hard to notice the alignment issue visually. Assuming you have resin pads, if you have any brake squeal then the caliper is probably not aligned. For metalic pads, if your brakes squeal in dry & clean conditions then maybe they're not aligned?

 

If none of this helps, upload a photo of the bike, brake lever, caliper and disc & maybe include your weight. Or just go with the most probable clause and get the system bled.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Christofison

[Jewbacca]

It's air in the system. Glazed pads etc wouldn't pull to the bar.

 

A decent mechanic should be able to sort that out for you quicksticks

[Darko]

It's been for two services already to try resolve this issue.

 

I'll try pump the lever to see if that does provide some pressure. 

 

It's air in the system. Glazed pads etc wouldn't pull to the bar.

 

A decent mechanic should be able to sort that out for you quicksticks

[gemmerbal]

Hearing stories like this is exactly why i dont take my bike to any shop, unless i absolutely cannot do it myself - the list of which is becoming very short i might add.

 

My advice would be to get a bleed kit and teach yourself to do a proper brake bleed. It takes an hour max and then you know its been done properly. Brake maintenance is not something i think any biker should gamble on - it must work when you need it.

 

Scan Park Tool’s Youtube channel, old Calvin has a very simple way of bringing across the message. Doddy from GMBN is also very concise in his videos.

 

It really is worth it in the long run, you save time, money and potential hospital bills for high blood pressure or broken bones ????

[Gerhard765]

It's been for two services already to try resolve this issue.

 

I'll try pump the lever to see if that does provide some pressure. 

Try pumping, always a good idea.

 

I've noticed that on rocky terrain I need to pump the brakes three or four times before it bites. (As you say, no resistance even with lever is against handlebar).

 

This seems to happen when the oil level in the brake lever reservoir is low. I bought a bottle of hydraulic oil and unscrew the plug on the brake lever and just top up the oil if this happens. Takes about 2 minutes per brake lever to top up.

 

Good luck.

[Darko]

I hear you man. This experience has me thinking that it's best if I figure out general maintenance on my own. It's extremely frustrating & discouraging. 

 

 

Hearing stories like this is exactly why i dont take my bike to any shop, unless i absolutely cannot do it myself - the list of which is becoming very short i might add.

My advice would be to get a bleed kit and teach yourself to do a proper brake bleed. It takes an hour max and then you know its been done properly. Brake maintenance is not something i think any biker should gamble on - it must work when you need it.

Scan Park Tool’s Youtube channel, old Calvin has a very simple way of bringing across the message. Doddy from GMBN is also very concise in his videos.

It really is worth it in the long run, you save time, money and potential hospital bills for high blood pressure or broken bones

[ChrisF]

It's air in the system. Glazed pads etc wouldn't pull to the bar.

 

A decent mechanic should be able to sort that out for you quicksticks

 

This is most likely the correct answer ..... BUT, my 2019 model with Shimano 4-pod brakes is doing the same, after replacing the pads.

 

Bike shop bled the system ... worked nicely on ride 1 .... after 200km the lever was almost touching the bars ....

 

 

Apparently there are more of these 4-pod 2019 model Shimano brakes doing the same .... 

 

They swopped out the system, and sent mine to Shimano.  Only done 50km on it last weekend, let's see if it lasts ....

[Darko]

Stuck in meetings now FML. But will jump out as soon as I can to test this theory!

 

 

Try pumping, always a good idea.

 

I've noticed that on rocky terrain I need to pump the brakes three or four times before it bites. (As you say, no resistance even with lever is against handlebar).

 

This seems to happen when the oil level in the brake lever reservoir is low. I bought a bottle of hydraulic oil and unscrew the plug on the brake lever and just top up the oil if this happens. Takes about 2 minutes per brake lever to top up.

 

Good luck.

[ChrisF]

Try pumping, always a good idea.

 

I've noticed that on rocky terrain I need to pump the brakes three or four times before it bites. (As you say, no resistance even with lever is against handlebar).

 

This seems to happen when the oil level in the brake lever reservoir is low. I bought a bottle of hydraulic oil and unscrew the plug on the brake lever and just top up the oil if this happens. Takes about 2 minutes per brake lever to top up.

 

Good luck.

 

 

On a previous bike this happened over time .... the long pull on the lever co-incided with wear on the pads.  Once I replaced the pads it was perfect again.

 

 

But yes, a quick bleed would have done the job quicker and cheaper .... I opted to replace the pads, and then having a semi worn set as spare ...

[Jewbacca]

As an aside, pumping the lever is just to see if there is air in the lever and not a flaccid seal.

 

If the seals are gone it won't bite but just keep pulling back once there is pressure.

 

You shouldn't be 'topping up' the reservoirs. If you are there is a leak or you haven't bled your brakes in years!

 

Ideally it is a closed system with no air. Ideally. Nothing in or out!