Tour de France 2021

[Shebeen]

17 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

For sure.

But I guess my point is that if Pog and Bernal are there (or better youngsters) I can't see either of them changing physiology to beat them.

Bear in mind Tadej has an ITT to rival anyone, so realistically can they lose mass, keep their power up and change tack as a pro and then beat someone they struggled to beat in a straight line while 'big'? (Or new youngsters even better)

But again, if I'm wrong then cycling has won and I will be stoked as balls

 

8 years a go a 23year old pushed Froome all the way to paris and finished 2nd, he repeated it 2 years later, still in white...the next best thing is still around the corner.

nairo along with, bardet, pinot Tejay, maincheese and a lot of others have shown that it is easier to explode onto the scene in your midtwenties than to kick on and win it. or the pace is hotter at the sharp end.

[dsw]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

What is a "natural" GC rider or a "natural climber"

 

PS: Pidcock went backwards on every climb on Sunday. He wasn't operating at capacity

A natural climber is.. well, ... a natural climber.

A natural GC or rider must be a natural climber who can also TT but must also have the (natural) ability to lead a team, to stay focussed for 3 weeks, to handle immense pressure, have a certain tactical awareness etc.  All natural climbers do not have those abilities and will therefore most likely never win a grand tour. 

Pogacar and Bernal are natural GC riders who can and have won grand tours while Superman Lopez for example is only a natural climber ( based on current evidence). 

The definition is my own and not scientific   

[Vetplant]

2 minutes ago, dsw said:

A natural climber is.. well, ... a natural climber.

A natural GC or rider must be a natural climber who can also TT but must also have the (natural) ability to lead a team, to stay focussed for 3 weeks, to handle immense pressure, have a certain tactical awareness etc.  

One addition:

Should be able to stay off the tarmac as much as possible. 

Hitting the deck has an adverse effect on winning a GT. 

[GhostSixFour]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

transcribed from memory about 20 years ago, but is about 90% accurate.

 

Ride magazine reporter: So Robbie, do you think you could ever win the Tour de France?

Robbie Hunter: no I'm not that sort of rider, but maybe if I got some cancer, like Lance, it could be possible.

 

next edition ride magazine. 4 pages of letters

 

I never liked Robbie Hunter, and at the time, reading that I felt so vindicated. Granted, I was still in school and basically worshiping Mr. Armstrong and his drug dealing ways....

Hindsight, as they say..

[dsw]

7 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

One addition:

Should be able to stay off the tarmac as much as possible. 

Hitting the deck has an adverse effect on winning a GT. 

So true,.. if Gee had that skill he might have been invincible

 

[Vetplant]

Just picked up the tail-end of a discussion by the commentators. They expect echelons today. Seems to be expected close to the finish. 

[TNT1]

40 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

For sure.

But I guess my point is that if Pog and Bernal are there (or better youngsters) I can't see either of them changing physiology to beat them.

Bear in mind Tadej has an ITT to rival anyone, so realistically can they lose mass, keep their power up and change tack as a pro and then beat someone they struggled to beat in a straight line while 'big'? (Or new youngsters even better)

But again, if I'm wrong then cycling has won and I will be stoked as balls

 

There's simply too many on the road variables.

 

A Wout van Aert without appendix surgery the other day would probably have won the TT in the Tour and taken yellow. 

 

If's but's and maybe's?

 

On the question of changing physiology, in the two to three years it would take to transform your focus and your talent in a different direction, a new batch of kids will be coming up and will make the whole exercise moot.

 

[TNT1]

13 minutes ago, GhostSixFour said:

I never liked Robbie Hunter, and at the time, reading that I felt so vindicated.

I'm confused. Vindicated?

[Jewbacca]

4 minutes ago, TNT1 said:

I'm confused. Vindicated?

Break up banger?

 

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, TNT1 said:

There's simply too many on the road variables.

 

A Wout van Aert without appendix surgery the other day would probably have won the TT in the Tour and taken yellow. 

 

If's but's and maybe's?

 

On the question of changing physiology, in the two to three years it would take to transform your focus and your talent in a different direction, a new batch of kids will be coming up and will make the whole exercise moot.

 

That's my point...

[GhostSixFour]

1 hour ago, TNT1 said:

I'm confused. Vindicated?

Yeah. I felt chuffed "knowing" that he was indeed a ****..

[TNT1]

3 minutes ago, GhostSixFour said:

Yeah. I felt chuffed "knowing" that he was indeed a ****..

Yeah, I'm confused still. I dunno how his comment makes him a ****. Anyway. he was as tough as a badgers arse to do what he did, and continues to advocate for african cyclists as an agent for a lot of cyclists coming out of the continent.

Edited July 6, 2021 by TNT1

[GhostSixFour]

4 minutes ago, TNT1 said:

Yeah, I'm confused still. I dunno how his comment makes him a ****. Anyway. he was as tough as a badgers arse to do what he did, and continues to advocate for african cyclists as an agent for a lot of cyclists coming out of the continent.

I suppose it's the way it reads in my mind - like real arsehole style "yeah, I could win the tour if I got cancer...." type of vibe.

[DieselnDust]

I think  we're over thinking it. Robbie isn't a rider that was in the "all rounder" category. He was out and out Sprinter and pretty handy at that but he wasn't the fastest by a long shot. When the stars aligned he was there.

Lets qualify how we are categorizing riders here. MVDP, WvA, Egan, Remco, Tadej, and Pidcock are kind of top of the pile right now and we have a lot of expectation lumped upon them. They are crossing disciplines like few have done before them. Ondrej Cink is the only current MTB'er thats ridden the TdF and worn Yellow besides MvdP. So lets focus purely on road for now. we can exclude Pidcok because he hasn't raced his in anger yet. Lets also focus on TdF winners and compare those to MvdP and WvA.

If we recall from 2020, WvA was climbing better a lot of "climbers". Long turns on the front that broke the traditional climbers was lauded as a phenmenal talent. So what separates him from taking that all the way to the top? is it just a few kilo of weight? Is it a different focus on interval duration instead focussing more on 1hour power rather than 2sec through to 8min or 20min power? How long would it take to improve those abilities to be a GC contender?

Same for MvdP. He's lighter than WvA, similarly huge engine. 

If its a matter of the wrong ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fibres then perhaps its not so simple and will take a long time but they both appear to be in the all rounder category which leaves them within the GC contender but perhaps their position skewed to far toward Sprinter. I don't think its tis because he can handle long climbs a lot better than Cavendish and other sprinters.

I don't think its as simple as "he's too heavy".

 

 

[justinafrika]

31 minutes ago, GhostSixFour said:

I suppose it's the way it reads in my mind - like real arsehole style "yeah, I could win the tour if I got cancer...." type of vibe.

It's called sharp satirical humour, Mr life-of-the-party. Hilarious chirp, and more power to Robbie for having the spunk bunkers to joke like that at the time.

Edited July 6, 2021 by justinafrika

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, GhostSixFour said:

I suppose it's the way it reads in my mind - like real arsehole style "yeah, I could win the tour if I got cancer...." type of vibe.

Robbie used irony there..

not alloy or carbony, Irony