Who's had an eBike motor failure and how did it fail?

[aquaratza]

I'm curious about the failure rates of eBike motors locally. Have any of you owned an eBike and had the motor fail on you? If so, how did it fail? How did you fix it?

 

If you'd have a "smart" eBike battery fail on you that would also be interesting to hear about.

Edited April 25, 2021 by aquaratza

[OVERDRIVE]

I have a very nasty opinion of ebikes so will wait for someone neutral to comment 

[Zebra]

I have a very nasty opinion of ebikes so will wait for someone neutral to comment

 

Retro-fitted a 26er Spez alu S-Works 5-odd years ago, Chinese Bafang conversion, don’t use it much anymore, but not one days problem,never!

(Was recovering from major leg surgery, and it helped me get back on a bike)

 

I definitely see a place for them, mates Wife has one, she rides with us on our regular bikes, a win all around.

Cheers

Chris

[Me rida my bicycle]

Retro-fitted a 26er Spez alu S-Works 5-odd years ago, Chinese Bafang conversion, don’t use it much anymore, but not one days problem,never!

(Was recovering from major leg surgery, and it helped me get back on a bike)

 

I definitely see a place for them, mates Wife has one, she rides with us on our regular bikes, a win all around.

Cheers

Chris

I don't think his opinion is whether or not they have a place, I think that has proven enough.

I think it's about the reliability... I know of 2 friends on e-bikes that has had their fair share of issues. One has warranty as bought new the other not so lucky. So before you consider that "bargain" do a little research into running and repair cost.

I think they are great but luckily I can't afford them to worry about reliability ????

[PhilipV]

I have a very nasty opinion of ebikes so will wait for someone neutral to comment

I have a somewhat nasty opinion of the gholf players riding ebikes.

The bikes are cool though.

 

But I've only met two of those bad apples so far. Most of the ebikers are like us, they just want to ride and have fun.

[Robbie Stewart]

I also did not think much of ebikes when they first appeared, but since then I have seen how versatile they are and now I would not mind owning one myself, but alas, being responsible with my money precludes me for now.

 

Per example, I was riding up to the radio tower at Witfontein in George (for those of you who have not ridden up there yet - it's a very rutted, steep and long ascent to a few epic enduro style descents. Did I say it was a long climb? It's looong). While I was suffering in silence up that hill I was passed by a guy in his ebike...TWICE! He would ride up and then bomb down the hill only to repeat again. I think he ended up doing about 3 laps all in all. I managed 1!

But then there are all the people with injuries keeping them off a bicycle. Ebikes have reopened the door to them again. I am thinking of ChrisF here.

On Saturday past I was seated at the Dairy Shed at Contermanskloof shoveling some carrot cake down my pie hole when I was approached by a lady who asked me if I ride an ebike. I replied in the negative, and she then said she is asking as her sister has had a hip replacement but wants to start cycling but a normal bike aggravates the injury, and they are wondering if an ebike will reduce the stress caused. I am pretty sure it would definitely keep riding stress to a minimum.

 

When I started my ride at Conter's I was passed by the self-same ChrisF on his trusted speed steed. I was blown away by how fast he ascended that switchback climb. Again, I suffered in silence.

So, ja, when participating in an event for analogue bikes, e-bikes ain't cool, but unless you're winning it should not matter.

[Zebra]

I don't think his opinion is whether or not they have a place, I think that has proven enough.

I think it's about the reliability... I know of 2 friends on e-bikes that has had their fair share of issues. One has warranty as bought new the other not so lucky. So before you consider that "bargain" do a little research into running and repair cost.

I think they are great but luckily I can't afford them to worry about reliability

then let me re-state: i have zero reliability issues whatsoever, so reliability is a non-issue, for me.

Cheers

Chris

[Paul Ruinaard]

Not my bike but the Specialized Turbo Levo i bought for my wife second hand but i got the original invoices.

 

So far i have had a battery repaired under warranty - first month after i got it (warranty offered from bike shop where i got it) and then the motor failed completely Dec 2019 whilst away on a trip (replaced under warranty after much to and fro and then in Dec 2020 hey presto the battery goes completely faulty after working the weekend before, No explanations.

 

So Specialized locally say we will give you a battery at a lower price R 10k vs R 18500 new, but we will call you when we have stock. Thanks. That was December and i am still waiting. Eventually i found a second hand battery at bike market for R14500 and bought that because Specialized locally have not come through with spares. And they arent likely to cause the chip shortages and demand for ebikes mean they would rather sell new bikes than replace old things under warranty.  And they dont seem to care much about that attitude.

 

Thing is an ebike without a motor or a battery is the cycling equivalent of a potplant. 

 

Having spoken to the shops who were trading in them most of the guys who were selling second had ebikes have stopped because of all the failures.

 

Be careful of these things - when they work they are sublime but if you get them second hand the warranty is void and they cost a lot more to fix if they fail as they are modular. Not like a normal bike.

 

And Specialized after sales service on old ebikes sucks. Not interested, couldn't care, too many people looking for new bikes because of Covid so they will supply that market rather than try and fix the ones out there. I have been a huge Specialized fan since forever but TBH this experience has made me rethink that. Although i see every bike shop doing the same in the boom times.

 

 

 

 

[aquaratza]

then let me re-state: i have zero reliability issues whatsoever, so reliability is a non-issue, for me.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Zebra [bafang]. I'll add Bafang to the Poll list.

 

Thing is an ebike without a motor or a battery is the cycling equivalent of a potplant. 

Haha, thanks for the info Paul Ruinaard. I actually turned off my ebike yesterday and climbed several hills in Jonkershoek, which was fun. So mine's still rideable when completely unpowered but you do notice the weight when climbing.

 

I've had a 2017 Specialized Levo for around a year now. In that time I've put roughly 1800 KM on it. I got it with about 900 KM on it, so in total it's now on about 2700 KM and so far I haven't had any issues with it. I tend to do long rides with it (70KM+), which means I have to work a lot to not run out of battery. This of course places additional strain on the bearings, which seems to be one of the main failure points of these motors (based on videos by Performance Line Bearings in the UK).

 

I've got two batteries, neither have failed, both report > 95% capacity (in BLEvo). The one battery is a 2017 battery, the other 2018.

 

PLB videos indicate that the main failure points on the Brose motors are due to water ingress (as the bearings exposed to the outside aren't sealed on 2017, 2018 and 2019 motors) and also due to pedal strikes damaging the sprag clutch. 

 

I've found on my batteries that the rubberised control panel is not sealed, so I removed the panel, put a small amount of silicone on the mating surfaces and reinstalled it. One of my batteries came with oxidation from water damage on the control panel LEDs, but the damage is minor.

 

Thanks again for your posts.

Edited April 26, 2021 by aquaratza

[RocknRolla]

I have a very nasty opinion of ebikes so will wait for someone neutral to comment 

 

Unless you have battery or motor related information for this thread, I think your opinion is probably better expressed on the "Do E-bikes belong on the mountain" thread. (Use the search function)

 

as you were...

[Paul Ruinaard]

Not my bike but the Specialized Turbo Levo i bought for my wife second hand but i got the original invoices.

 

So far i have had a battery repaired under warranty - first month after i got it (warranty offered from bike shop where i got it) and then the motor failed completely Dec 2019 whilst away on a trip (replaced under warranty after much to and fro and then in Dec 2020 hey presto the battery goes completely faulty after working the weekend before, No explanations.

 

So Specialized locally say we will give you a battery at a lower price R 10k vs R 18500 new, but we will call you when we have stock. Thanks. That was December and i am still waiting. Eventually i found a second hand battery at bike market for R14500 and bought that because Specialized locally have not come through with spares. And they arent likely to cause the chip shortages and demand for ebikes mean they would rather sell new bikes than replace old things under warranty.  And they dont seem to care much about that attitude.

 

Thing is an ebike without a motor or a battery is the cycling equivalent of a potplant. 

 

Having spoken to the shops who were trading in them most of the guys who were selling second had ebikes have stopped because of all the failures.

 

Be careful of these things - when they work they are sublime but if you get them second hand the warranty is void and they cost a lot more to fix if they fail as they are modular. Not like a normal bike.

 

And Specialized after sales service on old ebikes sucks. Not interested, couldn't care, too many people looking for new bikes because of Covid so they will supply that market rather than try and fix the ones out there. I have been a huge Specialized fan since forever but TBH this experience has made me rethink that. Although i see every bike shop doing the same in the boom times.

Hmm - i have always been concerned about water and batteries and it is a really cool bike that goes great when it does.

 

Its the wife's TBH but the failures have been binary i,e, working, then not working. Simply put. I know electronics and when they pop they pop. When i googled the symptoms they were well known and documented.

 

What concerned me was speaking to the shop owners who traded in second hand they are now stepping away from ebikes because if they fail they are very costly to repair.

[ChrisF]

I bought the Giant Trance E in February 2020.  By the time my physio and bio-rehab was wrapping up we were into lock-down.  So 1 May was my first ride on the bike.  Thus this can be seen as the one-year feedback.  I have done about 2 750km in this year on this bike.  In fact, I dropped off the bike this morning for a major service.

 

MOTOR - In November I heard the odd "tick-tick" sound while riding, but could not place it.  By early December I knew it related to pedal movement, and roughly at the 4-o-clock position.  BUT, it was intermittent.  I took the bike in to the dealer and asked them to investigate the sound.  Got the bike back and was assured everything is 100%.  During the holiday rides the sound become more regular ...  In January I booked it in, this time I booked it in for a minor service at the shop where I bought it, specific note of this on the job card about this noise.  Again got the bike back, assured everything is fine ....  NOPE !!  It is not fine, it is still making the ticking noise ....  February I took it in a third time for the same issue.  Now I am told the chain is stretched, and cassette worn, thus the sound .... okayyyy ...  New chain, new cassette, but I ask for the old parts back - 0,25% wear on the chain and cassette still fine.  More importantly, from the shop we go straight to the trails, and 100m further the sound is still there.     I then took this video -

 

PS - even at this point it was an intermittent sound, though repetative under similar conditions.  It would tick under mild load, and only while accelerating gently.  Coasting or under heavy load it was silent. 

 

"Oooo, please bring the bike back, we will have another look".

 

The hard reality is that the "shop" does NOT work on the motors.  So the bike gets sent to Dragon Sports.  It gets fixed and sent back, it is now "fixed".  I asked Raymond to PLEASE ride the bike around the block and to CHECK if the sound is truly gone ...  I almost felt sorry for Raymond when he phoned me 20 minutes later, NO, the bike is still not fixed.

 

Back to Dragon Sports for a second round .... The bike is returned a few days later, now properly fixed.  Every person in the shop gave me a different story ... from a motor service, to a brand new motor, to new internal, but clearly they did not allign their stories ...    

 

In the end I email Dragon Sports to get the real version of events.  This is the reply I got:

The motor was found to have a 3.1 mm tolerance instead of the  1mm tolerance on the BB axle as allowed by GEV and the motor was repaired under warranty as the sintered bushings where wearing unevenly on the drive axle and thus causing  the tolerance issue .

When we received the bike back we found an imperfection in the shape on one of the teeth of the Nylon spur gear and I replaced the complete drive kit again and this was rebuilt as per spec and then tested to our satisfaction.

Apologies for the inconvenience .

 

 

YES, bearings fail.  Should it fail at 2 000km ?  Then again, I know many Giant riders with way more km and no issues, so not a real problem.  

 

The multiple book ins for the same item DID leave a bitter taste.  More importantly, it has shown that the "shop" is NOT capable of servicing anything more than the ordinary bicycle components !!  Anything more than that either gets sent to the distributors or is replaced with new parts, gone are the days of the "bike shop" fixing an item.

 

 

 

BATTERY -

No issues thus far. 

 

For our trips to the Karoo I did buy a second battery.  Carried with in a back-pack for longer rides.  The price of this second battery was "eye watering" though ....

 

 

CONTROLLER -

I know of a couple of people with older ebikes where the controller got water into the system ....

 

NOPE, Giant does NOT fix it ..... But we can sell you a brand new controller system .....  (I was too scared to even ask the price)

 

I just make damn sure to keep water away from my system !

 

 

 

RUNNING COSTS -

As the help-my-trap spares the knees I tend to do longer rides, and have drastically increased my annual cycling distances.  So tires wear quicker, in terms of "time".  Similar for the drive train, again in terms of "time".

 

Then I look at the healthy strong riders that do 4 or 5 times my distances per year .... their running costs are still higher than mine

 

PS - extra power onto the drive train vs chain life ..... when strong riders get an ebike and put out their max power AND full motor assist, SURE, then the chain takes more strain and will wear a bit quicker.  With my weak knees, my power and the motor power is still less than most of the strong riders on here ....   

 

 

 

BRAKES -

The brakes on this bike have taken me back to the shop way too many times .... 

 

Finally one visit to Mark's workshop seems to have resolved this.

 

Coming down from the mast I ride the brakes .... ja, okay     ... the system needs to be PROPERLY bled as the least bit of air causes havoc when it heats up during these long brake sessions ....  Combine this with brakes glazing up and it does not help rider confidence ....

 

 

GRANTED, this may be more down to ME and my riding style.

 

 

Still, Mark BLED the brakes, bedded the new brake pads in properly, and thus far it seems to hold up properly.

 

Either way, this is one heavy machine, so if you are going to do a lot of downhills, you may well incur a bit more brake maintenance.  As this bike uses standard pads the costs are low though.

 

 

In summary -

The motor suffered a bearing issue.  TECHNICALLY, no biggy.  In fact, ALL motor suppliers have bearing and seal kits available.   Just a pain to deal with incompetent workshops ...

 

The rest of the costs are no higher "per kilometer" than it was on any of my previous bikes.

 

 

 

 

 

And yes .... the bike was dropped off for its major service this morning - at a different dealer, simply no trust left in original store and their workshop.  

[LazyTrailRider]

I bought a 2017 Levo - very similar to yours Aquaratza - for my wife in July 2019. Granted, it lives a very easy life with one or two 15km (300-400m) elevation rides a month in most months. The only trouble I've had so far has been the screw on the drive-side of the plastic motor cover pulling through leaving the cover loose, but that was easily remedied with a DIY washer.

 

Because it's such a schlep (read: I'm lazy) to remove the battery to clean it, I take it to the Spez dealership to be washed and lubed 9 out of 10 times. They're obviously very aware of the battery control's water ingress issues, so I have not had any problems there.

 

Something which should be said on the other thread: Getting the Levo has been the most incredible game-changer for her. She's a type 1 diabetic and really struggles to keep blood sugar levels consistent, the ability to dial assist levels up and down while on a ride to make sure she doesn't sugar crash has been amazing. Without it, we would not be able to ride together!

Edited April 26, 2021 by LazyTrailRider

[The Ouzo]

It sounds to me like an electrical engineering cycling enthusiast has a great business opportunity here servicing and repairing ebikes

[PhilipV]

Snip Snip

The multiple book ins for the same item DID leave a bitter taste. More importantly, it has shown that the "shop" is NOT capable of servicing anything more than the ordinary bicycle components !! Anything more than that either gets sent to the distributors or is replaced with new parts, gone are the days of the "bike shop" fixing an item.

 

 

 

Just a pain to deal with incompetent workshops ...

 

And yes .... the bike was dropped off for its major service this morning - at a different dealer, simply no trust left in original store and their workshop.

 

I remember a while back Louis Knipe posted a photo of a giant ebike that had a motor issue that he sorted out. A rep from Dragons then replied saying that he must pasop and that the warranty is now void. Then the owner of the bike replied to the rep telling him to shove their warranty as the bike has been to them multiple times and they couldn't fix it.

 

Fortunately you have Knipe Racing in your neck of the woods as well.

[ChrisF]

I remember a while back Louis Knipe posted a photo of a giant ebike that had a motor issue that he sorted out. A rep from Dragons then replied saying that he must pasop and that the warranty is now void. Then the owner of the bike replied to the rep telling him to shove their warranty as the bike has been to them multiple times and they couldn't fix it.

 

Fortunately you have Knipe Racing in your neck of the woods as well.

 

Thank you, very good to know that Louise work on these.  He certainly helped me a few years back with the Trek.

 

The Yamaha motor in the Giant is now also used in other brands of ebikes.

 

The spares WILL be available more freely