Loadshedding solutions

[W@nted]

I read that if only an inverter and battery is installed (no panels), there is a loss in efficiency when charging the batteries with eskom power. So I can expect to actually pay more per month for my eskom usage?  Can anyone please confirm this with some real life measurements? 

Edited October 9, 2022 by W@nted

[ChrisF]

7 minutes ago, W@nted said:

I read that if only an inverter and battery is installed (no panels), there is a loss in efficiency when charging the batteries with eskom power. So I can expect to actually pay more per month for my eskom usage?  Can anyone please confirm this with some real life measurements? 

 

Correct. About 15% extra, depending on the quality of the products...

 

But this only applies to the power you use during loadshedding, so very little added to your monthly bill.

 

Edit .... my system use about 0,5kW.h during a loadshed.  Thus about 0,075kW.h in losses, or 15c extra per loadshed at R2/kW.h.   well worth it 👍👍

Edited October 9, 2022 by ChrisF

[TheoG]

17 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Correct. About 15% extra, depending on the quality of the products...

 

But this only applies to the power you use during loadshedding, so very little added to your monthly bill.

 

Edit .... my system use about 0,5kW.h during a loadshed.  Thus about 0,075kW.h in losses, or 15c extra per loadshed at R2/kW.h.   well worth it 👍👍

Even more worth it if you can add PV panels to more than make up for that inefficiency loss ...  

[Jase619]

18 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Correct. About 15% extra, depending on the quality of the products...

 

But this only applies to the power you use during loadshedding, so very little added to your monthly bill.

 

Edit .... my system use about 0,5kW.h during a loadshed.  Thus about 0,075kW.h in losses, or 15c extra per loadshed at R2/kW.h.   well worth it 👍👍

Especially when you have power and your neighbour doesn't, I think people sometimes get lost in the cash payback period of these systems, and forgets about taking into account the payback you experience when your street is in darkness and you aren't. Or when the Bokke are playing, and you can watch without worrying about watching the 2nd half on your phone. Or having to tell your 2 year old that he can't do something cause it's loadshedding.

All of that should also be factored into your calculation.

If you are going into just to save money in the long run then fine, but if even 1% of your motivation is to be independent of Eskom and it's loadshedding, then there are other factors to take into account.

[The Ouzo]

On 10/4/2022 at 4:56 PM, The Ouzo said:

Been chatting the wife. 
the 3kw system that the guy has can have panels added at a later stage, so could find a more permanent place in the house. 
wife will be chatting to her mom to see if she’s willing to assist. 

I've been waiting for an official quote from the guy so that we can buy the thing, he messages me today apologising, he cant get gel batteries, he'll be quoting on AGM Deep cycle.

Since we're already over budget, extending to Lithium is to much of a push at this stage.

But, with this system we can budget for lithium and panels in a few years.

[TheoG]

1 minute ago, The Ouzo said:

I've been waiting for an official quote from the guy so that we can buy the thing, he messages me today apologising, he cant get gel batteries, he'll be quoting on AGM Deep cycle.

Since we're already over budget, extending to Lithium is to much of a push at this stage.

But, with this system we can budget for lithium and panels in a few years.

I have 4 x 200 Ah GEL batteries that I dont use anymore after I bought Li batteries.

Welcome to make me an offer ... 😁

Just a word of caution, any Pb batteries is a waist of money & time imho, but I guess as a temp solution to get through loadshed (ONLY) do have some value.

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, TheoG said:

I have 4 x 200 Ah GEL batteries that I dont use anymore after I bought Li batteries.

Welcome to make me an offer ... 😁

Just a word of caution, any Pb batteries is a waist of money & time imho, but I guess as a temp solution to get through loadshed (ONLY) do have some value.

thanks, this is purely to keep the wife working through loadshedding at this point. Not looking at reducing eskom bills or anything else at this stage. 

 

But, let me do some research on the cost of those gel batteries so that if I need to I can make you a fair offer.

[TheoG]

Just now, The Ouzo said:

thanks, this is purely to keep the wife working through loadshedding at this point. Not looking at reducing eskom bills or anything else at this stage. 

 

But, let me do some research on the cost of those gel batteries so that if I need to I can make you a fair offer.

They are plus minus a year old and still hold charge as well as you can expect from Pb Acid batteries.

[dave303e]

49 minutes ago, Jase619 said:

Especially when you have power and your neighbour doesn't, I think people sometimes get lost in the cash payback period of these systems, and forgets about taking into account the payback you experience when your street is in darkness and you aren't. Or when the Bokke are playing, and you can watch without worrying about watching the 2nd half on your phone. Or having to tell your 2 year old that he can't do something cause it's loadshedding.

All of that should also be factored into your calculation.

If you are going into just to save money in the long run then fine, but if even 1% of your motivation is to be independent of Eskom and it's loadshedding, then there are other factors to take into account.

I can remember a few years back when I had just started working and loadshedding first kicked in. Start up the lawn mower every time there was load shedding, so the neighbors didn't think you were too poor to afford a generator... Nowadays it is a silent flex with power backup systems.

[lechatnoir]

49 minutes ago, Jase619 said:

Especially when you have power and your neighbour doesn't, I think people sometimes get lost in the cash payback period of these systems, and forgets about taking into account the payback you experience when your street is in darkness and you aren't. Or when the Bokke are playing, and you can watch without worrying about watching the 2nd half on your phone. Or having to tell your 2 year old that he can't do something cause it's loadshedding.

All of that should also be factored into your calculation.

If you are going into just to save money in the long run then fine, but if even 1% of your motivation is to be independent of Eskom and it's loadshedding, then there are other factors to take into account.

exactly this... I put in a solar/inverter/battery in August, and while it's great to see my pay-as-you-go meter trickling down very slowly whihch i can convert into ronts and sense, that I can operate normally, have security/alarm uninterrupted etc etc during loadshedding HAS to have a value. I also work (very) remotely and putting my system in secures my income where I live. Yes, I am aware a full-blown solar/inverter wasn't necessary for that, but I chose it anyway.

[117]

26 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

I've been waiting for an official quote from the guy so that we can buy the thing, he messages me today apologising, he cant get gel batteries, he'll be quoting on AGM Deep cycle.

Since we're already over budget, extending to Lithium is to much of a push at this stage.

But, with this system we can budget for lithium and panels in a few years.

Nothing wrong with AGM batteries - just remember to set the inverter to the type of battery needed for charging and you'll be just fine (AGM's hate a trickle charge - they musty be pumped full as quick as possible. I've set my inverter to hit them with 20amp charge)

You should get around 3 000 cycles out of a set of AGM's. That's plenty for the next few years. Just remember that they don't like to be taken below 50% capacity - which means a bit of a lifestyle change when you're on inverter power. 
The rule in my house is no heating appliances allowed on the inverter (although we have over spec'd and can run everything anyway, but that's not the point) The rest is fair game

And lastly, make sure your inverter is able to take additional items, like Pv or another inverter in parallel so that when you want to expand the system, you simply plug and play forward. 

If you're not comfortable with the info from your supplier, get the details they're offering and run it past me or Theo in PM. And the offer from Theo is a good one on the batteries - chat to him

 

 

 

 

[Bomberman]

Hi All.

Thank you for the advice so far, lots of info coming in that helps. Looking at my options I will have to  look at a system with solar panels if Im planning on bringing down my bill. Ill still need to be on the grid for my borehole (3phase). 

keeping it cycling related 😅 - Cant run a fan when Im on my trainer 

[Bomberman]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:25 PM, Frosty said:

What is your monthly consumption of power (kWh, or units)?

Where are you based?

around 700 units, all honestly I forget to keep track. Ill take some time to check it this month.

Will be running my sprinklers more so it will be interesting to see.

 

Based in Kathu 

[dave303e]

27 minutes ago, Bomberman said:

Hi All.

Thank you for the advice so far, lots of info coming in that helps. Looking at my options I will have to  look at a system with solar panels if Im planning on bringing down my bill. Ill still need to be on the grid for my borehole (3phase). 

keeping it cycling related 😅 - Cant run a fan when Im on my trainer 

you can do 3 phase, just need the right inverter, but they are available and not as badly priced as you would expect.  

How deep is the borehole and how many litres a day do you use?

[stephenplumb]

5 hours ago, 117 said:

Nothing wrong with AGM batteries - just remember to set the inverter to the type of battery needed for charging and you'll be just fine (AGM's hate a trickle charge - they musty be pumped full as quick as possible. I've set my inverter to hit them with 20amp charge)

Fully agree - I had AGM for years from around 2013 and when I installed a new bigger system, I gave the old axpert and batteries to my beancounter and he used them for quite a while. 

I was a bit of a nazi and switched everything off during load shedding, so the batteries did not deep discharge, however my beancounter is running them hard and I think he has now killed them.

If you are pragmatic and look after them, you can get many good years out of the AGM or lead acid batteries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frosty]

4 hours ago, Bomberman said:

around 700 units, all honestly I forget to keep track. Ill take some time to check it this month.

Will be running my sprinklers more so it will be interesting to see.

 

Based in Kathu 

What is the cost per unit?
Or, what is your monthly spend?Assume the average rate around the country and go with R2.00 for ease of calculations.

Instead of paying that to the provider of electricity, you can pay R1400/month back to finance it. Having an access bond helps.

R1400 * 12 = R16800

An inverter, battery and panels could be well spec’d for R160k. That’s a 10 year repayment on the investment. Electricity is only going one way… up, so the 10 year ROi becomes less (in duration).

There is no savings; only the non-reliance in the grid 24/7. When you don’t have electricity, you can do certain things. Going off grid, or grid-tied buys you some freedom from relying on infrastructure that is not getting better with time.