The haunting (of Bikes)!

[440MTB]

Hey there all,

So around 6 months ago, I transitioned from more XC style trail riding, to hitting more light Enduro stuff (currently quite fond of Black Rhino 2 at Contermanskloof - WC), and I've been absolutely loving the challenge and progression aspect of this style of riding... learning new techniques and lines through and over gnarly rock gardens, doing drop-offs, jumps, hitting berms at more speed, etc... 

I had a 2017 Scott Spark 910 (Carbon frame, 120mm travel, etc), and sold that for a cheaper aluminium short travel trail bike (2019 Merida OneTwenty), with fairly decent geometry etc. (130mm front [which I recently uppded to 140mm with the last service]), 120mm rear [the float link makes it feel like more], 67.3° Head Angle, 75.5° Seat Tube Angle, etc. I am considering getting a better wheelset (something like the Lyne AMP30) as the stock wheelset is holding up, but only has a 22.5mm I/D, and use Shimano Cup-and-cone bearings (which SUCK to service, as I've done this myself when I just got the bike, and took it to Knipe Racing to do end of last month).

So on to "the haunting" aspect that I'm facing... I don't really feel like the bike is holding me back, considering my skill level is still on the rise, but I constantly find myself looking for bikes with more travel (e.g. 135+mm rear, 140+mm front travel bikes, etc.)... would a bike with more travel front and rear, maybe a bit of a higher BB height and slacker geometry help my progress, or should I rather get the wheelset for my Merida, and keep pushing until I feel that the bike is the problem, rather than my skillset?

That said, I also don't have a massive budget for a new bike, I'd have to sell the Merida, and then probably look at something in the R50k-R55k (MAX) range.

You can check out my IG to get an idea of some of the stuff we ride:

https://www.instagram.com/440biking/

Shot in advance!
 

Edited August 4, 2023 by 440MTB

[thebob]

First let's get something out the way. No matter what bike you have, you will always be looking at other bikes and lusting after them. Based on this, the correct number of bikes is always (N+1) where N is the number of bikes you own.

As for you situation, the One Twenty is a very decent bike. We have several people running them in the Gauteng and Mpumalanga enduro series without any issues, so I don't think it will hold you back until things get very steep and chunky. From my experience with a friend's one, it is much more slanted to the XC side of things with a long effective top tube and low stack. Riding it back to back with my Trek 2022 Top Fuel it is really surprising how much further forward it puts my weight. What you have done by adding 10mm more travel is shorten the reach and top tube length, raise the stack height, raise the BB and sacked the head tube and seat tube angles (around 66.8 and 75 degrees after the change). These changes will make it a bit more capable, but it is still heavily slanted to the XC and light trail side of things. The other pain in the rear with the One Twenty is that it can't take a 2.4 rear tyre without rubbing the inside of the chainstay.

The sensible thing to do is to run the bike into the ground. I wouldn't worry about wheels until I'd destroyed the current set. Also going to the wider rims could cause issues with the rear tyre clearance as mentioned earlier.

As for what I would do. I'd go to my nearest Trek or Merida dealer and get hold of a Fuel EX 7 (gen 6 version on sale for 47k) or a Merida One Forty (500 or 700 for around 50k). Those would be much better bikes to attack the trails if you intend on sticking with the sport and progressing further.

[Jewbacca]

One of the things a bigger bike does is create more speed without effort.

Whether or not you are comfortable at that speed is the next question. I'd try rent a bigger bike or test ride a few before making any decisions.

Personally, I don't like going faster. It puts me in situations I don't want to be in and multiplies the consequences when you get it wrong.

Going fast enough to be comfortable but not always on the limit is a very happy place for me. 

If you want to push the limits, go fasterer and fasterer then yes, a longer travel bike will also invariably come with a longer wheelbase, slacker HA, more upright riding position, lower BB and all the things that allow and make riding at speed 'more comfortable'.... Until you run out of skill

Test ride, then make a call on the pro's and cons. Sometimes a longer, bigger bike feels dead and junk on our trails. It needs steep, lively trails to really come alive, which in general, we simply don't have. 

I see bikes a bit like cars, own one for the riding you do 95% of the time. Too many people drive their big 4x4s and Bakkies around town for the 'one time' they 'might' need it every year.

But if you're going to shred the gnar envelope and smash PRs and road gaps then hulk smash that. 

 

[440MTB]

Thanks for the feedback @Jewbacca , and @thebob

I'll definitely do a lot of research and test rides this time round. For me it's at the point where I'm starting to pick up my speed now, but as you say, it comes with higher consequences if you up the speed even more, should something go wrong.

For now, I'm comfortable with the speed I'm going, and there is still room for more, but working on technique and understanding how to ride certain features is more important than speed at present... upskill, then "upspeed". 😄

I actually saw the specials on TREK, and it certainly got the CUD (compulsive upgrade disorder) going! 🤣

I'll have to check with a friend's 30mm I/D rims perhaps then, as I'm currently running an Ardent 2.4 in the rear without issue, but my current rims are 22.5mm I/D, but clearance seems fine to be honest.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by 440MTB

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Personally, I don't like going faster. It puts me in situations I don't want to be in and multiplies the consequences when you get it wrong.

Going fast enough to be comfortable but not always on the limit is a very happy place for me. 

 

 

 

Get out of my head. Also, been there got the plastic surgery haha. Preach!

but ive ridden with @440MTB and he has skills fosho. I’d go as far to say he under sells his skills lol. 

But yes @440MTB, they do make you go a lot faster, because all that travel just deletes the features. ESPECIALLY coils.

You notice it more on chunky trails. They are also alot more difficult to get off the ground because of all the travel/their weight. You wont bunny hop a mattress like you do that bike of yours. Well it will take a lot more effort.
 
When I ride my 140mm hardtail and even try to get near where I go with my big bike, it feels like im going double the speed. Thats also why i enjoy riding it so much, you dont have to do dumb things to feel that buzz (no pun intended lol) on a hardtail. 

You make a call though, if your current frame is boost and everything you are currently upgrading can be transferred to a new frame down the road….then why not? You WILL get upgradetitus…

also…140mm both sides is the sweetspot for CT in my opinion. 

if my bike wasnt an xl i would let you have a go on it…but as it already feels lazy to me due to its length…it will feel like an interlink truck to you.
 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by MORNE

[dasilvarsa]

Riding Trails is so much fun.

However When I Switched from XC to Trails some Years Ago I Lost My Fitness.

I Also Ride a Merida 120 and I would Classify it as a XC Bike That Can Handle Some Light Trails.

It is Classified as a Trails / Enduro Bike but It feels more like an XC bike.

The Merida 160 is a True Trails Bike.

A Trails Rider should also Ride XC Long Rides to Keep Fit.

[440MTB]

Hahaha, thanks @MORNE  ! Maybe a good start would be a wheelset (thankfully the current bike is boost), so I can keep them for the next bike. The bike already feels a bit more plush with the 130 to 140mm fork, as I've dropped the pressure a little to keep the sag at around 28% or so, and the float-link suspension in the rear feels like a bit more than 120mm, due to the way it works.
 

@dasilvarsa - I hear you man, I used to do 120km a week, with 50km and around 1000m of climbing as my average weekend rides, a lot faster too.  But these days I don't do long rides. Albeit, I did a 48km and 900m ride 2 weeks back, and still enjoyed it, the OneTwenty is definitely capable, well at least on stuff we have here, as well as longer rides and heavy climbs.

What I do to mitigate the fitness deficit, is by trying (emphasis on TRY) to hit my indoor exercise bike at least twice a week for some HIT sessions for an hour and try and keep my wattage at 160W+ for the duration of the ride (with 5minute intervals at around 250W+ every 20mins).

Ideally I'd like a nice light XC bike too, but time for multiple rides is not on the cards as I am a family man with a wife and kid that also require my time, and attention. 😝 

Then also, forking out for a 2nd bike which needs maintenance, etc, is bit of a pipe dream at this stage to be honest.

Cheers!

Edited August 4, 2023 by 440MTB

[Jewbacca]

18 minutes ago, 440MTB said:

Hahaha, thanks @MORNE  ! Maybe a good start would be a wheelset (thankfully the current bike is boost), so I can keep them for the next bike. The bike already feels a bit more plush with the 130 to 140mm fork, as I've dropped the pressure a little to keep the sag at around 28% or so, and the float-link suspension in the rear feels like a bit more than 120mm, due to the way it works.
 

@dasilvarsa - I hear you man, I used to do 120km a week, with 50km and around 1000m of climbing as my average weekend rides, a lot faster too.  But these days I don't do long rides. Albeit, I did a 48km and 900m ride 2 weeks back, and still enjoyed it, the OneTwenty is definitely capable, well at least on stuff we have here, as well as longer rides and heavy climbs.

What I do to mitigate the fitness deficit, is by trying (emphasis on TRY) to hit my indoor exercise bike at least twice a week for some HIT sessions for an hour and try and keep my wattage at 160W+ for the duration of the ride (with 5minute intervals at around 250W+ every 20mins).

Ideally I'd like a nice light XC bike too, but time for multiple rides is not on the cards as I am a family man with a wife and kid that also require my time, and attention. 😝 

Then also, forking out for a 2nd bike which needs maintenance, etc, is bit of a pipe dream at this stage to be honest.

Cheers!

2nd bike should always be a road bike.... Doing a quick 50km on the road at decent clicks is the business and it is generally super cheap to maintain.

[Zebra]

2 hours ago, 440MTB said:

I actually saw the specials on TREK, and it certainly got the CUD (compulsive upgrade disorder) going! 🤣

C.U.D. never HEARD of that condition, but I have SUFFERED from it! 😆

Edited August 4, 2023 by Zebra

[MORNE]

35 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

2nd bike should always be a road bike.... Doing a quick 50km on the road at decent clicks is the business and it is generally super cheap to maintain.

Lies. All those free kms! What you meant to say was second bike = SS road bike…dirt cheap to maintain, build legs like Nguni cow

ps: also @440MTB, the average enduro bike weighs 16kg’s easy haha. what you lose in distance you make up in having to slog a lead bicycle to the top of Rhino 1 or armageddon 6🤣

Edited August 4, 2023 by MORNE

[MTBRIDER1234]

6 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

One of the things a bigger bike does is create more speed without effort.

Whether or not you are comfortable at that speed is the next question. I'd try rent a bigger bike or test ride a few before making any decisions.

Personally, I don't like going faster. It puts me in situations I don't want to be in and multiplies the consequences when you get it wrong.

Going fast enough to be comfortable but not always on the limit is a very happy place for me. 

If you want to push the limits, go fasterer and fasterer then yes, a longer travel bike will also invariably come with a longer wheelbase, slacker HA, more upright riding position, lower BB and all the things that allow and make riding at speed 'more comfortable'.... Until you run out of skill

Test ride, then make a call on the pro's and cons. Sometimes a longer, bigger bike feels dead and junk on our trails. It needs steep, lively trails to really come alive, which in general, we simply don't have. 

I see bikes a bit like cars, own one for the riding you do 95% of the time. Too many people drive their big 4x4s and Bakkies around town for the 'one time' they 'might' need it every year.

But if you're going to shred the gnar envelope and smash PRs and road gaps then hulk smash that. 

 

On gnarly stuff this holds very true.

Just remember that any chilled trail will become a chore on a big bike. They soak up a lot and are generally pigs at anything that isn't fairly high speed.

When riding my enduro bike on flattish trails, you better believe that I have to work that thing HARD to keep speed. For example, when I rode Rhebokskloof I was pumping and using all I have to keep speed through the flat sections there. 

Big bikes also climb not so lekker and if you have no lockout and DH tires like me, it can become a bit irritating when you are slugging up the hill, using the same amount of power as you would on the xc bike, just to go 1/2 the speed.

[ChrisF]

As @thebob said .... N+1 is good .... we all lust after this every so often (no matter what "N" we already have)

 

 

Not much I can add in terms of bike options that have not been covered already.

 

 

You did say "your skills are improving" .... which begs one question ..... Have you attended any skills training ?

 

There are many skills clinics offered by a range of coaches at Tygerberg MTB.  Also many advertised via the SlowCoach FB pages.  Many of these are for "small groups".  If you want individual coaching, speak to Julien Louw of the bike shop at the Bloemendal trail head.

[MORNE]

40 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

As @thebob said .... N+1 is good .... we all lust after this every so often (no matter what "N" we already have)

 

 

Not much I can add in terms of bike options that have not been covered already.

 

 

You did say "your skills are improving" .... which begs one question ..... Have you attended any skills training ?

 

There are many skills clinics offered by a range of coaches at Tygerberg MTB.  Also many advertised via the SlowCoach FB pages.  Many of these are for "small groups".  If you want individual coaching, speak to Julien Louw of the bike shop at the Bloemendal trail head.

Again, id place him above the average bloemendal regular😅. Ive seen people on R150k xc bikes walk ‘down’ the bottom rhino. He’s not that guy. This man can bunny hop n bike properly and he’s pretty fast don’t a trail. He undersells himself because he’s probably too humble ☺️ 

Soon i’ll be the shittest rider in their group too, if i’m not already that is🤣

[Robbie Stewart]

Just watched your Insta of the Rhino rock garden @440MTB. I recall that day as I was one of those "unknown soldiers" that stopped by you because of the mud that got flung in my eye. I also ride with @MORNE  on the odd occasion. On the day we just dropped in from Rhino 1. It was tons of fun. I ride a Spez Camber 120 on everything the WC has offered, from every Tygerberg line to every Jonkers line apart from Status Quo and Plumber to Witfontein to Bloemendal to Meerendal to Plaisir Flow and everything inbetween.

Do I feel under biked? No. Do I want a new bike? Heck yeah! Today the Trek Slash 8 caught my eye. I've decided to let the feeling blow over and let sanity prevail. I'll rethink that choice in the new year again.

My experience was that my skills have markedly improved riding what I have now to the point that I am comfortable and confident on any line, jump etc. that is typical to the Cape. Now, I can take my time to calmly decide what bike would be best suited for my skills and the terrain we have available to ride.

[Jono]

Enjoy the new bike

(I've seen this movie before)

[440MTB]

@MORNE  - Thanks for all the flattery... I'll have to buy you a beer next time we go ride if you keep this up. 😝🤣

@Robbie Stewart - Aaah yes! You were just behind Josh, and I remember you stopped coz you got mud in your eye! Actually have a video of you on my YouTube channel as well, doing the step up at Banhoek. 😎

This one (Check at 05:58), Mr. @MORNE  also standing there. 😉

So as an update on this thread... I'll see in the next month or two, but we did Jonkershoek (Armageddon, DH & Red Phoenix) this past weekend, and I didn't really feel "under biked"... especially now that I've increased my front travel to 140mm at the last service.

So for now, I'll most likely just get a decent wheelset with a 30mm I.D. and work on skills and technique, then hopefully next year this time I'll get something new.

Edited August 25, 2023 by 440MTB