Advise needed, vertical shock vs horizontal shock

[Strong Climber]

Good day,

Forum lurker here. Need some advice. Currently ride a scott spark 940 xc (2018) 1x12 shimano xtr.

Contemplating getting a xc specialized dual sus 1x12 pre owned medium frame.

 

1. For those who have ridden both vertical and horizontal shocks, how do the two compare ito, climbing, comfort on the trail and stiffness (peddling efficiency) when cycling on the road.

2. When buying a pre owned specialized mtb which frame is better, aluminum frame or carbon frame?

 

The scott spark is comfortable on the trail but on the road its a bit soft and the peddling efficiancy isnt the greatest compared to my hardtail 3x9 mtb.

Looking forward to your input.

 

Brad.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Strong Climber

[splat]

Having ridden neither, I cant comment on a comparison.

But I would imagine that pedalling efficiency would be more of a function of lockout than shock orientation.
And nothing will be more efficient than a hardtail in that regard

[Steady Spin]

No difference between the two. I have two bikes with 120mm travel on the rear. 
While different applications I've never felt that one is more efficient or performs better than the other. 

Lockout is, as Splat said, key to optimal pedal efficiency. For an open shock it comes down to linkage design and not the direction in which the shock faces. 

[Strong Climber]

1 hour ago, Steady Spin said:

No difference between the two. I have two bikes with 120mm travel on the rear. 
While different applications I've never felt that one is more efficient or performs better than the other. 

Lockout is, as Splat said, key to optimal pedal efficiency. For an open shock it comes down to linkage design and not the direction in which the shock faces. 

@Steady Spin @splatThank you for the info much appreciated. I do make use of the different suspension settings ie lockout, traction and descending depending on the terrain. My assumptions were way off.

 

[TheoG]

28 minutes ago, Strong Climber said:

@Steady Spin @splatThank you for the info much appreciated. I do make use of the different suspension settings ie lockout, traction and descending depending on the terrain. My assumptions were way off.

 

I never tried a vertical shock bike before simply because I prefer the "look" of a horizontal designed bike.  Its purely personal preference me thinks ....

Something to consider though, hor designed modern frames allow for 2 water bottles inside the front triangle whereas for vert design its a lot more challenging to do that.

So .... if you like to do longer rides this is for sure something to keep in mind, if you like the short fast tech stuff a vert design might work for you also.

Edited August 9, 2023 by TheoG

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

1. I’ve had both. Difference has been minimal. Horizontal is commonly used in XC bikes, because it is easier to engineer a super light horizontal suspension. But having said that - there are amazing bikes using both of these systems. This shouldn’t be a ome of your concerns. 
 

2. Really depends on what you are looking for. Budget vs weight being the biggest two differentials. Alu and carbon has its place. Equally important to check both frames for cracks. 
 

Make sure your suspension is properly set-up and in perfect working condition before contemplating the move.

A proper Specialized carbon marathon and XC bike will definitely be better that your 2018 spark, but it will come at a cost… so ask yourself if what you are looking for in a new bike is worth the delta. 

[Headshot]

Why would you think the orientation of the shock has anything to do with suspension performance? It doesn't and these days most manufacturers have their designs dialed. It's all down to choosing the kind of bike you want...XC/marathon or trail or enduro/DH

[Zebra]

…first 12 minutes, or so, many of the comments same as what Hubber’s are saying; but presenter will reassure you that BOTH have their place, with little to set them apart!
 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Zebra

[DieselnDust]

shock orientation is a more a fucntion of design wrt to being able to fit two bottle cages into the main triangle or only one.

Vertical shock = 1 botle cage, lighter top tube. Gve more flexibility in terms if stand over height as the suspension kinematics are not designed around the top tube point.

Horizontal or top tube anchored shock = two bottle cages and a heavier top tube and lighter down tube.

[Dusty]

2) I would personally go for a carbon 2nd hand Spez frame. I owned the brand for a number of years and found that alu fatigue is a very real thing. My frames all got replaced under warranty, however, buying 2nd hand does not give you that opportunity. Carbon does not have the fatigue issue. My 2c

[Strong Climber]

Your valuable input has provided me with valuable perspectives to consider as I make my decision. Thank you!

[Me rida my bicycle]

I've owned a couple of the Sparks very comfy and fast down, but I felt with each pedal stroke the bike went more up and down than forward.

The older Spark had a similar design to the Spesialized and that felt like a much faster bike. 

Please note this was before I used any type of device so it's purely just on how it felt to me. And I'm heavy so basically need to max out the rear shock to get the correct sag. 

[Strong Climber]

20 hours ago, Me rida my bicycle said:

I've owned a couple of the Sparks very comfy and fast down, but I felt with each pedal stroke the bike went more up and down than forward.

The older Spark had a similar design to the Spesialized and that felt like a much faster bike. 

Please note this was before I used any type of device so it's purely just on how it felt to me. And I'm heavy so basically need to max out the rear shock to get the correct sag. 

 

Quote

felt with each pedal stroke the bike went more up and down than forward.

I echo your sentiments. Will be testing a couple of bikes with a similar design to the specialized.

[MORNE]

read this

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/the-ultimate-guide-to-mountain-bike-rear-suspension-systems/
 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by MORNE

[Martin PJ]

I used to think the down was slower than the horizontal, then Shurter road the Scott with the down orientation for a while, so I figured it's much of a muchness.

[PhilipV]

Scott has a bias to being more open and reactive. The upside to that is a more supple suspension with better small bump compliance. 
If you value speed over comfort, then you’ll probably prefer something like the Epic.