[Event] Tour de PPA

[Akon]

42 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

with the benefit of hindsight

no hindsight necessary - this is Grade 1 logic...

 

43 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

B bunch was still faster than A on the section after Vierlanden and catching up with A, no sympathy

A race to win, B race to catch A - far different distance / time frame / mind set...

 

44 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

you are specifically told to stop by an official

 

 I think an official was one of the parties mentioned?

46 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

so no point criticizing them

Maybe you want to read something, and now try to defend that? (Classical strawman...)

[Skubarra]

2 minutes ago, Akon said:

no hindsight necessary - this is Grade 1 logic...

 

A race to win, B race to catch A - far different distance / time frame / mind set...

 

 I think an official was one of the parties mentioned?

Maybe you want to read something, and now try to defend that? (Classical strawman...)

He initially blamed the B bunch riders as well. I disagreed with that part of the argument, not with the part that officials were partly to blame.

If A race to win but is not fast enough to stay ahead of B then that it sucks to be in A on that day, that often happens to the elite ladies/vets bunches, I rarely see them moan about that on here. Its part of racing, you deal with it.

[Serhan]

I started in group C.

While the start was okay for us, things deteriorated rapidly, so many near misses, in the first 30km, with riders touching wheels 🤕 it wasn't long before the first 2 riders went down because someone crossed wheels.

Then the mayhem from the A group crash, weaving around cars to pass.

Things settled for a bit and we found some rhythm, unfortunately at 65km a rider went down and this crash took 12 of us down. I am not certain what caused the rider to go down, but I unfortunately had no room to avoid the collision.

While I can't comment on the incident I got caught up in, as I don't know what the cause was for the rider going down, I can comment on the overall experience.

It took 6 years to build up a decent seeding, I always imagined riders in the faster groups would be more disciplined and have higher concentration levels. I am left terribly disappointed. Touching wheels without any real obstruction is just a matter of negligence. A simple signal when moving out of your line does so much for group safety.

Both winelands and 99er felt safer than PPA.

Having said that I am not negative as a person and put the crash I was involved in, into the racing incident category.

I do feel overall rider etiquette must be improved 

With this crash my hopes for a sub 3 cycle tour 2024 attempt have ended, the infamous collar bone is getting surgery.

I will be at suikerbossie supporting friends and all other riders this year, wishing everyone a safe ride !

 

 

[Johan A Marais]

This race review was on Cadence last night. All the rider reviews were great and very complimentary. They obviously did not talk to the A to C bunch it seems... 

['Dale]

32 minutes ago, Serhan said:

I started in group C.

While the start was okay for us, things deteriorated rapidly, so many near misses, in the first 30km, with riders touching wheels 🤕 it wasn't long before the first 2 riders went down because someone crossed wheels.

Then the mayhem from the A group crash, weaving around cars to pass.

Things settled for a bit and we found some rhythm, unfortunately at 65km a rider went down and this crash took 12 of us down. I am not certain what caused the rider to go down, but I unfortunately had no room to avoid the collision.

While I can't comment on the incident I got caught up in, as I don't know what the cause was for the rider going down, I can comment on the overall experience.

It took 6 years to build up a decent seeding, I always imagined riders in the faster groups would be more disciplined and have higher concentration levels. I am left terribly disappointed. Touching wheels without any real obstruction is just a matter of negligence. A simple signal when moving out of your line does so much for group safety.

Both winelands and 99er felt safer than PPA.

Having said that I am not negative as a person and put the crash I was involved in, into the racing incident category.

I do feel overall rider etiquette must be improved 

With this crash my hopes for a sub 3 cycle tour 2024 attempt have ended, the infamous collar bone is getting surgery.

I will be at suikerbossie supporting friends and all other riders this year, wishing everyone a safe ride !

 

 

I was chatting a bit to the guy that crashed just past Voorpaardeberg Prison. I know him from around the area a little bit. He just disappeared like a sniper shot him and he was gone from my left shoulder in a blink. It seems he lost control of his bars as we hit a bumpy lumpy area in the road. It was a high speed section and I ended up being at the back of a smaller bunch and, on glancing back, I saw the domino effect at your crash site.

Sorry to hear, man. It is part of the sport. Hope you bounce back.

[Serhan]

3 minutes ago, 'Dale said:

I was chatting a bit to the guy that crashed just past Voorpaardeberg Prison. I know him from around the area a little bit. He just disappeared like a sniper shot him and he was gone from my left shoulder in a blink. It seems he lost control of his bars as we hit a bumpy lumpy area in the road. It was a high speed section and I ended up being at the back of a smaller bunch and, on glancing back, I saw the domino effect at your crash site.

Sorry to hear, man. It is part of the sport. Hope you bounce back.

Indeed part of the sport, I was always told you're not a real cyclist until you break a collar bone 😅

[DieselnDust]

The reality is that for the bulk of road cyclists participating in ppa events , the primary objective is the best possible seeding for the ctct. It’s not race craft, improved tactics or skills, it’s simply being in the right group to have the best shot at a sub3 Argust. 
while this mindset perpetuates, bunch etiquette will simply not improve because it’s a nutts on the chopping block all out effort with a singular objective. Once achieved new joiners to the sub 3 club promote themselves to bike hub virtual coaches, nutrition and equipment specialists. This feed’s the system.

surviving crashes are rewarded with medals of valor also known as the finishing medal but with bite marks😂

 

#thisistheway

 

[NotSoBigBen]

58 minutes ago, Serhan said:

Indeed part of the sport, I was always told you're not a real cyclist until you break a collar bone 😅

Took me nearly 34 years to become a real cyclist but inevitably it happened, just over a year ago 😅

Sorry man, hope you heal up well!

[Mamil]

2 hours ago, Serhan said:

I started in group C.

While the start was okay for us, things deteriorated rapidly, so many near misses, in the first 30km, with riders touching wheels 🤕 it wasn't long before the first 2 riders went down because someone crossed wheels.

Then the mayhem from the A group crash, weaving around cars to pass.

Things settled for a bit and we found some rhythm, unfortunately at 65km a rider went down and this crash took 12 of us down. I am not certain what caused the rider to go down, but I unfortunately had no room to avoid the collision.

While I can't comment on the incident I got caught up in, as I don't know what the cause was for the rider going down, I can comment on the overall experience.

It took 6 years to build up a decent seeding, I always imagined riders in the faster groups would be more disciplined and have higher concentration levels. I am left terribly disappointed. Touching wheels without any real obstruction is just a matter of negligence. A simple signal when moving out of your line does so much for group safety.

Both winelands and 99er felt safer than PPA.

Having said that I am not negative as a person and put the crash I was involved in, into the racing incident category.

I do feel overall rider etiquette must be improved 

With this crash my hopes for a sub 3 cycle tour 2024 attempt have ended, the infamous collar bone is getting surgery.

I will be at suikerbossie supporting friends and all other riders this year, wishing everyone a safe ride !

 

 

I was well behind your crash, tailgunning the C group and rode through the carnage it left - it might have been you that attracted my sympathetic gaze lying on the left of the yellow in the hunched posture that suggests collarbone - hope it heals up well and you're back in the saddle soon.

I share your impressions of the intermediate groups where we race, as well as your experience of building the fitness to stick with these bunches. The number of times I see people crossing wheels, fiddling with bike computers, filling gaps that only the pros should be filling ....

It's super exciting riding fast in the group but the risks are real!!!

 

[Murrob]

1 hour ago, Serhan said:

Indeed part of the sport, I was always told you're not a real cyclist until you break a collar bone 😅

Hi Serhan, are you the gentleman in the blue shirt that went down? I think you and I have chatted in the past, we had a chat around bunch etiquette and NASA as I was wearing a NASA shirt some time ago. So sorry for your injury, heal up soon.

Best, Murrob

[Bub Marley]

I was in C as well but don’t recall any crashes in our bunch so I assume it’s because i was more towards the front. I think positioning in bunches is pretty important. Your awareness of riders around you is pretty important as well. 

 

Sometimes it’s just bad luck but I always find that if you are towards the front, you always seem to avoid crashes. It also allows you to accelerate when the bunch accelerates. I think a lot of accidents also happen because of that elastic effect. Riders lose a wheel and then either swerve all over the place trying to close a gap but they’re so fatigued or they don’t close the gap and the rider from behind needs to then come around which can also cause mayhem.

 

I would say though that it’s pretty easy to watch fellow riders and get an immediate gauge of there fitness, skill level and just basic awareness. When I spot someone that i feel is riding terribly, I just avoid riding anywhere close that person.

 

And then while we’re on the topic of bunch etiquette. My biggest gripe are slower rides on inclines not moving over to the left. It frustrates me to no end. If you know that you’re not the strongest up a hill, just move to the left and let the faster guys come through. You’ll probably still be in touch with the group when you hit the top. This is one of the main reasons why cyclists are forced to go onto oncoming traffic lanes.

[Serhan]

21 minutes ago, Murrob said:

Hi Serhan, are you the gentleman in the blue shirt that went down? I think you and I have chatted in the past, we had a chat around bunch etiquette and NASA as I was wearing a NASA shirt some time ago. So sorry for your injury, heal up soon.

Best, Murrob

Hey Murrob,

No I was the one in the red and white Everyday Athlete kit.

Surgery tomorrow, Doctors promise I can zwift next week.

 

 

[droo]

53 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

I was in C as well but don’t recall any crashes in our bunch so I assume it’s because i was more towards the front. I think positioning in bunches is pretty important. Your awareness of riders around you is pretty important as well. 

 

Sometimes it’s just bad luck but I always find that if you are towards the front, you always seem to avoid crashes. It also allows you to accelerate when the bunch accelerates. I think a lot of accidents also happen because of that elastic effect. Riders lose a wheel and then either swerve all over the place trying to close a gap but they’re so fatigued or they don’t close the gap and the rider from behind needs to then come around which can also cause mayhem.

 

I would say though that it’s pretty easy to watch fellow riders and get an immediate gauge of there fitness, skill level and just basic awareness. When I spot someone that i feel is riding terribly, I just avoid riding anywhere close that person.

 

And then while we’re on the topic of bunch etiquette. My biggest gripe are slower rides on inclines not moving over to the left. It frustrates me to no end. If you know that you’re not the strongest up a hill, just move to the left and let the faster guys come through. You’ll probably still be in touch with the group when you hit the top. This is one of the main reasons why cyclists are forced to go onto oncoming traffic lanes.

Keep left, pass right. Riding, driving, walking, escalators... so many things would work so much better if people could work out why this is a thing.

On avoiding the guys riding like knobs - there were one or two on 99er that ended up one wheel in front of me every time I stopped actively avoiding them. It was exhausting trying to keep them at a safe distance.

[The Ouzo]

1 hour ago, Bub Marley said:

I was in C as well but don’t recall any crashes in our bunch so I assume it’s because i was more towards the front. I think positioning in bunches is pretty important. Your awareness of riders around you is pretty important as well. 

 

Sometimes it’s just bad luck but I always find that if you are towards the front, you always seem to avoid crashes. It also allows you to accelerate when the bunch accelerates. I think a lot of accidents also happen because of that elastic effect. Riders lose a wheel and then either swerve all over the place trying to close a gap but they’re so fatigued or they don’t close the gap and the rider from behind needs to then come around which can also cause mayhem.

 

I would say though that it’s pretty easy to watch fellow riders and get an immediate gauge of there fitness, skill level and just basic awareness. When I spot someone that i feel is riding terribly, I just avoid riding anywhere close that person.

 

And then while we’re on the topic of bunch etiquette. My biggest gripe are slower rides on inclines not moving over to the left. It frustrates me to no end. If you know that you’re not the strongest up a hill, just move to the left and let the faster guys come through. You’ll probably still be in touch with the group when you hit the top. This is one of the main reasons why cyclists are forced to go onto oncoming traffic lanes.

All the points above is why I often land up either pulling the group or being right at the pointy end.

I find the further back you go the less etiquette there is. Between that elastic band effect, getting stuck behind dead wheels and people just not holding a proper line, its nerve racking and frustrating at the back.

[Skubarra]

1 hour ago, droo said:

Keep left, pass right. Riding, driving, walking, escalators... so many things would work so much better if people could work out why this is a thing.

Normal road rules don't apply though, you pass on the side where there is a sufficient gap and when it is safe to do so. Most important thing is to ride predictable (and if there is a gap to your left it is very predictable that someone might use it to their advantage) 

[Wannabe]

16 hours ago, Skubarra said:

Normal road rules don't apply though, you pass on the side where there is a sufficient gap and when it is safe to do so. Most important thing is to ride predictable (and if there is a gap to your left it is very predictable that someone might use it to their advantage) 

Just warn the rider you are passing on the left before you take the gap. 

I've found that during the Argust, everybody and his dog is hugging the right hand side of the road on Smitswinkel, leaving a lot of passing space on the left, which I then use to my advantage with a friendly and loud "Passing Left" whilst making my way up Smits, avoiding the guys trying to force their way past on the edge of the road on the right hand side. Found it to be a lot less stressful.