Highest carbs / 100 gram or serving products that don’t cost the earth

[Pandatron]

Double Post

Edited April 29 by Pandatron

[reteid]

I have learned the hard way that you have to train your gut to accept and distribute the amount of carb you can take. Start with small amounts and gradualy increase.You will find the tipping point between performing and standing bent over in bushes or looking for the nearest loo. This should all be done during training and then adjusted to race conditions.Train your gut

[The Ouzo]

38 minutes ago, Kom said:

Reminds me of the Hammer Flask --> https://hammernutrition.com/blogs/endurance-news-weekly/hammer-gel-jug-and-flask

I use Pace and Power GT Gel, you buy a similar style bottle to decant into. Works well for me as it means I can continuously sip gel rather than trying to gulp and entire sachet every 30-45 minutes. 

Its also less messy in terms of gel going every where and empty gel packets leaking into your pocket.

[Spirog]

2 hours ago, Akon said:

https://sisunutrition.co.za/

They are running a special currently too...
90g / bottle is my sweetness tolerance level. Top it up with Maltodextrine, and have those 2-hour gels ready as well. 

I've just ordered some of this to try. 

[bleedToWin]

18 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

I curious to know this... if I ingest 100g carbs/hr, but only expend energy for say, 60-70g/hr, what happens to the rest? If I keep pumping in an excess of 30g/hr into my body, what will happen? Will I need to replace my pancreas?

Will my head unit give an accurate total of energy expenditure if I'm tracking watts and HR?

Your head unit gives an extremely accurate energy expenditure if you have a power meter. That is because cyclists (virtually all of us, regardless of level) fall into a narrow band of efficiency, so you measure the work performed in kJ by your power meter and you multiply by the efficiency factor and divide by kJ to Cal conversion, and as luck would have it those two cancel so work perform in kJ requires the same number of Calories burned.

Pedal at 100W and you will perform 360kJ of work in an hour, which requires 360Cal of energy metabolised. The complication is knowing from what sources your body will draw and this will depend on your physiology and fitness etc.  100g carbs is 400Cal of fuel. Pure hyper disciplined zone 2 riding might have a fair amount of fat oxidation, but metabolically speaking even spiking a little here and there will lower your percentage of fat utilised as fuel and it takes 10-30min of zone 2 riding for your body to metabolically return to zone 2 after an effort. If you do low zone 2, solo, and never accelerate hard (not even from a robot just to get back up to speed) you might be burning less than the 100g ingested per hour. For real world situations you are almost always burning through everything you ingest and running down your reserves from hour 1.

If you burn what you consume the only health concern is your teeth. 😉 

[The Ouzo]

6 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

Your head unit gives an extremely accurate energy expenditure if you have a power meter. That is because cyclists (virtually all of us, regardless of level) fall into a narrow band of efficiency, so you measure the work performed in kJ by your power meter and you multiply by the efficiency factor and divide by kJ to Cal conversion, and as luck would have it those two cancel so work perform in kJ requires the same number of Calories burned.

Pedal at 100W and you will perform 360kJ of work in an hour, which requires 360Cal of energy metabolised. The complication is knowing from what sources your body will draw and this will depend on your physiology and fitness etc.  100g carbs is 400Cal of fuel. Pure hyper disciplined zone 2 riding might have a fair amount of fat oxidation, but metabolically speaking even spiking a little here and there will lower your percentage of fat utilised as fuel and it takes 10-30min of zone 2 riding for your body to metabolically return to zone 2 after an effort. If you do low zone 2, solo, and never accelerate hard (not even from a robot just to get back up to speed) you might be burning less than the 100g ingested per hour. For real world situations you are almost always burning through everything you ingest and running down your reserves from hour 1.

If you burn what you consume the only health concern is your teeth. 😉 

who needs teeth anyway, they just add weight  

[ajnkzn]

Thanks team - Sisu definitely looks worth trying out.

[JayLow]

This topic is super interesting, I am learning a lot! Definitely going to experiment with more eating when doing hard efforts.

Also want to train my fat burning energy system to be ready for the longer lasting efforts (MAF!).

t still boggles my mind that the body's carb based energy store is about 2000 cal (enough for 2-3 hours), but the fat based energy store is in excess of 10x that number, which is why humans are the greatest endurance athletes out of all the mammals. (note these numbers are order of magnitude estimates to illustrate a point, not exact numbers) 
 

2 hours ago, bleedToWin said:

Pedal at 100W and you will perform 360kJ of work in an hour, which requires 360Cal of energy

Genuinely interested: Are you sure about the 360kJ of work requiring 360 cal? What about the relationship of 4.184 kJ per Cal?

The other complication is just because a food has x amount of kJ of energy in it, does not mean that your body will use all of it for energy. This is why calorie counting is so hit and miss for weight loss.

[Pandatron]

43 minutes ago, JayLow said:

This topic is super interesting, I am learning a lot! Definitely going to experiment with more eating when doing hard efforts.

Also want to train my fat burning energy system to be ready for the longer lasting efforts (MAF!).

t still boggles my mind that the body's carb based energy store is about 2000 cal (enough for 2-3 hours), but the fat based energy store is in excess of 10x that number, which is why humans are the greatest endurance athletes out of all the mammals. (note these numbers are order of magnitude estimates to illustrate a point, not exact numbers) 
 

Genuinely interested: Are you sure about the 360kJ of work requiring 360 cal? What about the relationship of 4.184 kJ per Cal?

The other complication is just because a food has x amount of kJ of energy in it, does not mean that your body will use all of it for energy. This is why calorie counting is so hit and miss for weight loss.

Thought KJ wasnt a direct one to cal either

[Hilton.]

47 minutes ago, JayLow said:

Genuinely interested: Are you sure about the 360kJ of work requiring 360 cal? What about the relationship of 4.184 kJ per Cal?

This explains it quite well, for now:  

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/calories-and-power/

(Basically, although 4kJ of effort theoretically requires 1 Calorie (1kcal) of fuel, our human bodies are about 20% - 25% efficient. I.e. We need 4x as much fuel, due to heat loss etc.
So we require about 4 Calories to do that work. Hence 1kJ effort ~= 1 Calorie of fuel in)

Edited April 29 by Hilton.

[bleedToWin]

23 minutes ago, Hilton. said:

This explains it quite well, for now:  

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/calories-and-power/

(Basically, although 4kJ of effort theoretically requires 1 Calorie (1kcal) of fuel, our human bodies are about 20% - 25% efficient. I.e. We need 4x as much fuel, due to heat loss etc.
So we require about 4 Calories to do that work. Hence 1kJ effort ~= 1 Calorie of fuel in)

Yip, that's bang on.

If you are 23.9% efficient (on the high end of the spectrum) then 1kJ of work requies 4.18 kJ of energy metabolised which is is 1 Calorie (food calorie denoted by capital C).

[V18]

Try beer. Keeps the cramps away too. Or at least I don't remember any. 

[hansolo]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:56 PM, GK Ruger said:

 

Hi,

Think of us cyclists on the other side of 100kgs. I need a backpack and carrier to bring along enough carbs on a 3-4 hour ride.

I have considered brown sugar, salt, lemon juice and water and banana as a cheaper option - some keyboard warriors swear by it. But to cram 40g-60g of carbs into a bottle with sugar you need 10-15 teaspoons per 750ml. Surprisingly not too sweet if you add a bit of salt and lemon juice.

Benefit of the Biogen etc is the other goodies that enhance recovery, stop cramps and give you added watts...

Hoping to also get some good ideas here.

As a >100kg cyclist myself I wish/hope I'm running at a deficit to become a <100kg cyclist... This is obviously not working for me

 

 

[bleedToWin]

1 minute ago, hansolo said:

As a >100kg cyclist myself I wish/hope I'm running at a deficit to become a <100kg cyclist... This is obviously not working for me

 

One thing to take into account is your post ride elevated hunger and calorie consumption. There's data out there that indicates a quicker return to baseline is achieved with increased on-the-bike fueling and overall reduced calories over a 24h period is achieved.

I used to carry my all-day elevated eating performances (and drowsiness) as a badge of honor showing how hard I worked, but with high carbs on the bike I'm only doing recovery fuel and one meal upsized, then I'm back to normal and playing with the kids / living life as any other day.

[lechatnoir]

4 hours ago, Pandatron said:

<snip>

Since the body doesn’t release insulin during exercise, non-diabetic cyclists shouldn’t be concerned about fueling with sugar on the bike.

<snip>

is this the case? I ask because I don't know. a quick google reveals lots of journals I can't figure out quickly...

[bleedToWin]

6 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

is this the case? I ask because I don't know. a quick google reveals lots of journals I can't figure out quickly...

I understand insulin as playing a role during recovery, and generally athletes will have muscle tissue with improved insulin sensitivity. The process of mobilising stored glycogen (by turning into glucose) suppresses insulin release since insulin signals the need to turn circulating glucose into glycogen for storage. Can't have both systems running at the same time.