barry_bike1 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 Hey all, I trail I ride often is getting popular with these "e-motocross" bikes. It's in a nature reserve, single path etc. and can get quiet hairy with them zooming past. We've confronted them about the issue and their defence is "it's just an ebike and ebikes are allowed". I'm not too sure what to do. Is there some formal definition of what is an e-bicycle vs an e-motocross bike that we can clearly state on the rules?
BaGearA Posted July 6 Posted July 6 If it has a throttle then its shouldn't be allowed but other than that you're really going to struggle. its the trail park/owners issue to deal with not yours and any attempt you make to hinder them could have far worse outcomes for you. W Smith 1
ChrisF Posted July 6 Posted July 6 1 hour ago, barry_bike1 said: I'm not too sure what to do. Is there some formal definition of what is an e-bicycle vs an e-motocross bike that we can clearly state on the rules? There various loose interpretations. More importantly, the SANS Regulations for "motor vehicles" clearly defines what you need, in line with European regulations: NO throttle Pedal ASSIST, i.e. it stops if you dont pedal 250W MAXIMUM Speed assist up to 25km/h ... worth noting many, probably most, ebikes are imported to American specification, thus speed assist up to 32km/h. Practically: - 25 vs 32km/h pedal assist makes zero difference on the trails. (Very helpful on long rides to the trails) - 250W or more .... no way to police this - Throttle .... only thing you can actually check and police. - HOW the power is put down is MUCH more of an issue, again impossible to police .... on a perfectly legal Giant ebike you have 5 power settings. In reality you already have all 250W from the 3rd setting .... by 4th it just comes in MUCH faster and the back gets loose .... on full power it is very possible to spin out of corners. Sadly it is down to the rider to not destroy the trails .... which sadly means a few riders are doing exactly this, and it has already lead to ebikes being banned from some trails all over the world. Pieterlab1 1
barry_bike1 Posted July 6 Author Posted July 6 Thanks for the info. Throttle is a tough one. My wife's beach cruiser e-bike with a max speed of maybe 10km/h has a throttle. lol. ChrisF 1
ChrisF Posted July 7 Posted July 7 4 hours ago, barry_bike1 said: Thanks for the info. Throttle is a tough one. My wife's beach cruiser e-bike with a max speed of maybe 10km/h has a throttle. lol. Jip, why I split my reply between "regulatory" and "practically". Regulatory is the only bit a club or trail can try to enforce. Practically .... my perfectly legal ebike has the ability to cause damage to trails IF the rider chooses to be hooligan. Sadly, we see all too often that it is the small percentage of hooligans that results in total bans. While your wife and other responsible riders may be banned from trails, these hooligans just carry on regardless .... Ironic that the bulk of the damage I see on our trails are from hooligan riding, typically dragging brakes on berms and into corners ..... which has absolutely nothing to do with the type of bike and everything to do with the type of rider.
Mamil Posted July 7 Posted July 7 I know we're all supposed to say that ebikes are good thing, more people on bikes and all that jazz, but I just can't help the flicker of resentment that brightens into a flame of scorn and ridicule as some unfit oke 15 years my junior says "on your left" and whizzes past me making a noise like an electronic sewing machine up spykers hill. Still at least it's not a corpulent politician in a Discovery for whom finding his belly button would be a voyage of one, close passing me with 2 wheels in the cycle lane on Spaanschemat. I've recently pushed my e-bike acquisition out to 65 which, terrifyingly, is 9 years away, at which point I hope I've matured enough to get over my prejudices. Sorry for thread hijack .... No way should anything with a throttle be on the trails. vanniri, WaynejG, robbybzgo and 3 others 4 2
barry_bike1 Posted July 7 Author Posted July 7 Thanks for the feedback. We've kinda come to the conclusion that ebikes popularity will continue to grow and they'll come out in all shapes and sizes. Any kind of enforcement is nearly impossible. The only practical rule we can print and have community help enforcing is the requirement of pedals. If the bike doesn't have pedals, it's not allowed. openmind, Danger Dassie and Zebra 3
ewep Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) It depends on the trail owner's willingness to spend money and enforce the rules. The police in Netherlands have a machine to measure the power output of e-bikes. For the same reason as mentioned above (American e-bikes and "chipped" pedelecs). In Germany the police have a way of checking e-bikes although it is not scientific. Edited July 8 by ewep ChrisF 1
DuncanDoughnuts Posted July 8 Posted July 8 On 7/6/2024 at 6:37 PM, barry_bike1 said: Hey all, I trail I ride often is getting popular with these "e-motocross" bikes. It's in a nature reserve, single path etc. and can get quiet hairy with them zooming past. We've confronted them about the issue and their defence is "it's just an ebike and ebikes are allowed". I'm not too sure what to do. Is there some formal definition of what is an e-bicycle vs an e-motocross bike that we can clearly state on the rules? Would love to know where this trail is?
Headshot Posted July 8 Posted July 8 13 minutes ago, DuncanDoughnuts said: Would love to know where this trail is? Yes, me too. I don't think eBike Motocross bike is the correct term. They are electric motocross bikes. They look and ride completely differently to a pedal assist eBike.
DuncanDoughnuts Posted July 8 Posted July 8 On 7/6/2024 at 6:37 PM, barry_bike1 said: Hey all, I trail I ride often is getting popular with these "e-motocross" bikes. It's in a nature reserve, single path etc. and can get quiet hairy with them zooming past. We've confronted them about the issue and their defence is "it's just an ebike and ebikes are allowed". I'm not too sure what to do. Is there some formal definition of what is an e-bicycle vs an e-motocross bike that we can clearly state on the rules? Firstly - if it is throttle assist then it should not be on the trail. And if it is a normal ebike (peddle assist) , Id like to know how they ruining the trail? Are they spinning wheels out going uphill and roosting? Are they skidding into corners? and dragging there brakes at every opportunity? Are the bikes just to heavy and causing premature wear? Are they just going to fast? Curious about this.
DuncanDoughnuts Posted July 8 Posted July 8 6 minutes ago, Headshot said: Yes, me too. I don't think eBike Motocross bike is the correct term. They are electric motocross bikes. They look and ride completely differently to a pedal assist eBike. Also did it have cranks or foot pegs?
DuncanDoughnuts Posted July 8 Posted July 8 (edited) I think this is where the problem starts.... Online stores selling items like this and stating they are MTB E-Bikes..... Edited July 8 by DuncanDoughnuts Spelling Headshot 1
barry_bike1 Posted July 8 Author Posted July 8 Quote Firstly - if it is throttle assist then it should not be on the trail. I can't agree with this. If my wife's bike didn't have a throttle it'd be near impossible to get going as its so heavy. All the ebike rentals in the area have throttles and many conversion kits come with them. The "ruining trails" part is not so much about the physical trail. I'm sure you can squeeze your brake and make a bigger rut than any potential ebike skid. The issue is more the speed differences. I think its the shock to my system, battling an uphill at 2km per hour when someone unexpectedly, and without warning wizzes past at 50km/h. Maybe this is going to be the norm in the future and we just need to get used to it? ChrisF and Headshot 1 1
Headshot Posted July 8 Posted July 8 16 minutes ago, barry_bike1 said: I can't agree with this. If my wife's bike didn't have a throttle it'd be near impossible to get going as its so heavy. All the ebike rentals in the area have throttles and many conversion kits come with them. The "ruining trails" part is not so much about the physical trail. I'm sure you can squeeze your brake and make a bigger rut than any potential ebike skid. The issue is more the speed differences. I think its the shock to my system, battling an uphill at 2km per hour when someone unexpectedly, and without warning wizzes past at 50km/h. Maybe this is going to be the norm in the future and we just need to get used to it? Maybe you need think a bit more and get your facts straight before going off against Motocross riding on your local trail. Jeez. Get used to it or get fitter 🙂
vanniri Posted July 8 Posted July 8 1 hour ago, DuncanDoughnuts said: I think this is where the problem starts.... Online stores selling items like this and stating they are MTB E-Bikes..... R85k? Way too cheap. Will have no trail cred with such a thing. Either they up their prices or I will stay with my spec to be pro analog bike RustyHWR and ChrisF 2
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