Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[J Wakefield]

I think it's best we start with the need to stop making things up here and saying Theo's skills have been dismissed. 

Lets stick to facts.

[Duane_Bosch]

2 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

I think it's best we start with the need to stop making things up here and saying Theo's skills have been dismissed. 

Lets stick to facts.

[J Wakefield]

Just now, Duane_Bosch said:

I did not post this
It was clearly tongue in cheek
Move on mate 

[Duane_Bosch]

2 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

I did not post this
It was clearly tongue in cheek
Move on mate 

I know you didn't post that.

[ChrisF]

32 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

This is such a great Friday thread! 

It is obvious to see that the CSA selection point system is dumb.

The elite males is "competitive" so the 7 points available locally got split between 5 riders, 2 others got points in europe so let's leave them out of it.

 

 

Here is another category, names blanked out because it's not really about them. Only 3 riders competing, they split the 7 local points between them.

 

 

So @DieselnDust is accusing the local guys of not following the rules and criteria to qualify. He is not open to the possibility of the criteria being dumb.

The elite males had 22 entries for nationals, none of them go to worlds.

This other category had 3 entries for nationals and 2 go to worlds. 

Does this satisfy the objective?

 

If you can't see this is a dumb system then I guess there is no point going further down the road here. I can see why the system was objected to, and some common sense could be applied.

 

 

 

Real pity "you" did not post these criteria on the first 10 pages ....

 

On the FACE OF IT very few of us have sympathy with people who "did not qualify".  

 

These facts certainly puts a perspective to the issue at hand.  Seems the only way more get to go is if LESS take part in the selection races ....

 

 

Is "number of points" the correct way to go about this ?  Should it not be the best 5 or 6 over a series of national events ?

[J Wakefield]

4 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I know you didn't post that.

Sure but you also never posted with he said the skill is good. But anyway this isnt the point. 

The process should be this in my view:

Both parties are int he wrong and 2 wrongs dont make a right. If it was then I would be with my ex still heavens forbid.

The criteria needs to possibly change to allow a simpler or less aggressive points system. 
Riders need to understand that its not easy, it takes committed and skillset.
Both parties need to abide by their rules set out by both rider and federation. 
Injuries and illness happen. It's a tough sport but then have a clause for this possibly. 
Riders need to understand this is a freebie handout process. 
CSA need to understand its tough for South Africans to qualify and to raise to the level needed
And much more. 

From an enviroment I have had riders and grown men crying like babies on the phone to me cause they weren't selected for the Tour de France, why? they never filled the teams criteria, there was no "ill pay and go" it was simple you weren't good enough. 

You can argue it is the same but it is not, it's hi performance sport, Yes you can learn there, but you going cause you full ready and you learn mostly before the big event not at it. 

How many WChamps have these riders done? They would all be learning I presume so from that how many have improved their WChamps results progressively each time they went? I dont have this info result wise but this would be a good indication of what they learnt, went home, worked on it and went back for a better result. 

 

 

 

Edited July 26 by J Wakefield

[Irvin85]

This sounds like our government. 

Matric pass rate is too low, okay let's reduce the pass mark to 30%. Minister of basic education "we are happy to announce that the Matric pass rate for this year is up by 20%.  

The criteria was set in the beginning of the year, why did they not complain then, I can tell you why, they did not expect that CSA will stick to their rules and bend it for them as GM managed to secure us 7 spots. 

This reactive complaining is a really poor character trade. Instead of being pro active and trying to sort the issue out with CSA at the beginning of the year. 

[Shebeen]

27 minutes ago, Sally E Kirk said:

Thank you for pointing out the flaws in the system so succinctly.  The current Convenor of Selectors at CSA has acknowledged that the selection criteria are "dumb" as you put it.  He is quoted as saying - "in discussions with riders, coaches and other industry players, it has become evident that we need to review the policy for next year".  Pity it's too late for our Elite Males this year.  #lettheboysride

Pity. Sure they would have made an exception if GM missed out.

On the bright side, I now know how your kid can ride down a hill/in the air. bliksem

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7ZVxvpIKGe/

that's a lot of likes, right?!

[Duane_Bosch]

29 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

And much more. 

To begin with I think we as bike fans have been spoiled by the presence of GM. He's a one off and unlikely to be repeated ever again from any nation let alone a 3rd world country with a currency that is very weak. Somehow with an unbelievably thin talent pool we've managed to produce people like GM, Brad Binder, Grant Langston, Alby, Calvin Vlaanderen etc. And I think that has made us arrogant and spoiled. 

The reality is we are Not France, USA, UK and our riders are unlikely to reach those levels without spending extended periods away from home tackling Euro tracks.

I've been to a French national and all the factory rigs are there and the fields are INCREDIBLY deep. Compare that to an SA national where a Gazebo is considered rather flash. I've been saying this since my first trip to the Alps in 2011. I took Duran on his first Alps trip who in turn took Theo on his first trip. The only way our guys have any chance is if they man in a van it and somehow get spotted. But they're up against it because the fast french kids have been known for years and are a safe bet. And the reality is many of the factory teams are a closed system. The 2 factory Commencal teams are NOT going to hire a Saffer. Neither is Canyon. Bernard Kerr is going to hire his mates whom he's known for years and years.

Personally I think that there should be a system that rewards those guys who make the effort to go over there and put it all on the line and enter World Cups and IXS cups because our races do not prepare them for racing in Europe. Worlds in my view isn't only about the medals. It's about these guys getting the necessary exposure and experience to elevate themselves to the next level.

Expecting a south african to come anywhere near the box at worlds is frankly delusional and measuring them against Greg Minnaar is cruel IMO.

Anyways. Have a great weekend.

Edited July 26 by Duane_Bosch

[Danger Dassie]

20 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

This sounds like our government. 

Matric pass rate is too low, okay let's reduce the pass mark to 30%. Minister of basic education "we are happy to announce that the Matric pass rate for this year is up by 20%.  

The criteria was set in the beginning of the year, why did they not complain then, I can tell you why, they did not expect that CSA will stick to their rules and bend it for them as GM managed to secure us 7 spots. 

This reactive complaining is a really poor character trade. Instead of being pro active and trying to sort the issue out with CSA at the beginning of the year. 

With respect, this is a baseless comparison that doesn't add to the discussion. 
Of the numerous posts and quotes here from articles and podcast discussions outlining the issues at hand. In particular the lack of proactive response to a number of queries over the years that were raised about the policy criteria at hand, including a lack of actual knowledge of how the discipline works.  What speaks to this is the fact that people within the sport, including administrators, from within the discipline who do have an understanding. Wyn Masters, Andrew Neethling, Greg Minnaar etc ... yet nobody seems to have paid attention, until it was pushed into the open. 

[J Wakefield]

15 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

To begin with I think we as bike fans have been spoiled by the presence of GM. He's a one off and unlikely to be repeated ever again from any nation let alone a 3rd world country with a currency that is very weak. Somehow with an unbelievably thin talent pool we've managed to produce people like GM, Brad Binder, Grant Langston, Alby, Calvin Vlaanderen etc. And I think that has made us arrogant and spoiled. 

The reality is we are Not France, USA, UK and our riders are unlikely to reach those levels without spending extended periods away from home tackling Euro tracks.

I've been to a French national and all the factory rigs are there and the fields are INCREDIBLY deep. Compare that to an SA national where a Gazebo is considered rather flash. I've been saying this since my first trip to the Alps in 2011. I took Duran on his first Alps trip who in turn took Theo on his first trip. The only way our guys have any chance is if they man in a van it and somehow get spotted. But they're up against it because the fast french kids have been known for years and are a safe bet. And the reality is many of the factory teams are a closed system. The 2 factory Commencal teams are NOT going to hire a Saffer. Neither is Canyon. Bernard Kerr is going to hire his mates whom he's known for years and years.

Personally I think that there should be a system that rewards those guys who make the effort to go over there and put it all on the line and enter World Cups and IXS cups because our races do not prepare them for racing in Europe. Worlds in my view isn't only about the medals. It's about these guys getting the necessary exposure and experience to elevate themselves to the next level.

Expecting a south african to come anywhere near the box at worlds is frankly delusional and measuring them against Greg Minnaar is cruel IMO.

Anyways. Have a great weekend.

I dont disagree with this at all, actually basically all of it I agree with as I have walked that path every day with Calvin and still currently since 2005 through his whole career even when he didnt have hair under his arms at school. this is why I say to many many Europeans that if a South Africa "makes" it, people dont understand what it took. Many have no idea. Like zero. It also takes a special personality to do that.

However, the sacrifices he/they made, are not what 98% are willing to make or do make. 
Regardless of what they say 

[NickGM]

Can someone please write a TL/DR for this.

[capediver]

11 hours ago, Shebeen said:

yes, this is the Theo we're talking about

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7mB5qsoaU7/

 

squeaky bumtime watching that

Who's got the Morzine 10%er clip???? Can't touch my mate with that send!!!

[MORNE]

12 hours ago, NickGM said:

Can someone please write a TL/DR for this.

It’s Too Long, Don’t Read it.

Some things about gatekeeping, basic comprehension, validation bias, things about meritocracy, general ignorance, oversights, complacency, assumption, and a healthy dose of general bikehub stupidity….you know, the usual.

TLDR for that:

System of a Down - DDevil: “Stupid people do stupid things, smart people outsmart each other - then themselves!”

Human folly, societal chaos, and malevolence.

😅

Edited July 27 by MORNE

[Vaultboy]

19 hours ago, Irvin85 said:

Matric pass rate is too low, okay let's reduce the pass mark to 30%

Assuming you were born in 1985? Then you matriculated when the pass mark was 33%, and you were only required to do 6 subjects - with only your first and second language on higher grade, of which only your first language was actually HG difficulty. Being good at your second language was a lot of free points. 

People misunderstand (and misremember) actual requirements. 

 

[J Wakefield]

6 minutes ago, Vaultboy said:

Assuming you were born in 1985? Then you matriculated when the pass mark was 33%, and you were only required to do 6 subjects - with only your first and second language on higher grade, of which only your first language was actually HG difficulty. Being good at your second language was a lot of free points. 

People misunderstand (and misremember) actual requirements. 

 

Imagine going to a Dr and there is. 33.3% the diagnoses is right.