Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[BaGearA]

1 minute ago, Headshot said:

Sure, but comparing DH MTB to F1 is a very bad example. There's nothing stopping you from paying your way in by forming a team and qualifying last every time like Alfa Tauri or whoever is currently at the bottom. Try again 🙂 

For what ? 

 

That was a very apt example imo 

 

You guys are trying to argue that because of x and y reason that have not been proven by the riders they should get to go, sure.

 

The fact that gov official who can't walk upstairs gets to deny them sucks but even if that official wasn't there nothing regarding the end standings would've changed.

 

We're so used to sidestepping authority in this glorious ****hole of a country that we can just fix this by some media outrage. 

[Shebeen]

Qualifying is tough, especially when selection is kind of set but not entirely deterministic. Taking Nic Dlamini to the Tokyo olympics is a clear case of not following any sporting logic (I don't think that is a controversial statement).

https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/olympic-games-we/2024

I guess AMP is the ace in the pack and our main chance of a result whoever can align with her best is then the better selection. I'm sure both these athletes feel they have done enough to get there.

 

selected athlete:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8b2Td5OAgq/

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/tiffany-keep/start

missed out:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/hayley-preen

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8b2Td5OAgq/

 

[DieselnDust]

21 minutes ago, Headshot said:

You're a bit spiteful I think. If these guys are all we have and have made a huge effort to ride and race overseas then give them a go I say. Suddenly paying your own way is "self-entitlement". Weird.

not spitefull at all.

 

other athletes have to play by the rule to get the chance to realise the achievement of wearing the National kit. I'll use Candice as an example: She's had to play two games to earn that spot AND CSA and had to play along to get that qualifying spot. To secure the 19th place for SA she needed to earn enough UCI points by April. So even though she wasn't getting enough top results (She was on her way up), she was chipping away at the points along with Tyler Jacobs. To get over the hurdle she had to fly back to SA to race SA XCO Nationals where she needed 4 other competitors to participate in order to score full UCI Points for a National event. CSA canvassed enough ladies to participate selflessly to make up 5 riders even Candice lapped the entire field. That's understanding the game, playing it and making it work for you.

I haven't seen or heard of similar actions in the DH scene. Did these guys race the 75% of events in the National DH series? If they were there and podiumed they should have been scoring points. National Champs counts more (is it x2?). So there would be enough points in the National Series and Champs to meet the criteria. I can't see CSA not allowing enough points to be available. Was an event cancelled and not replaced? Where are the results sheets and table of point for the National Series? This will reveal who participated or didn't.

The other option was to race the World Cup scene and Qualify. If no one other than Greg qualified how is it that there is an opinion that those not selected are good enough to not go and get themselves injured or killed? or are fast enough to not get in the way of other competitors and be a danger to them?

I've seen Theo and Stefan race and I have no doubt as to their skill, but there is also a responsibility to the process of selection, respect it and comply. There's no spite, I just don't agree with their view that they deserve to go when they haven't played the selection game. No they're playing the social media game. 

Even Sami Maxwell's case was more clear cut than this. I empathise but the criteria are there and its up to the competitor to map  their best path through that maze.

and No I don't think CSA is acting unfairly. Part of the journey to being a better organisation is aligning their quality system to international best practice and the sportspersons have to lift their game to meet it.

 

I'm still keen to understand what was flagged as being an unfair criteria to meet.

Edited July 16 by DieselnDust

[Headshot]

12 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

I hate CSA and some of their policies and actions as much as the next person, but this isnt a case of beep boop boop and their work is done. WC is a big thing for CSA and they do all that they can to provide support for the riders, even with their limited budget. 

You know those declining road racing numbers? Well those CSA license fees would help fund the WC riders. Less of that, less WC riders that can be supported

 

You're inferring that a lack of funding is the issue when that hasn't been given as the reason. Again, self-funded riders.

[DieselnDust]

the CSA pays the entry fee no?

[DieselnDust]

19 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

We have massive thread drift here.

The topic is on CSA not selecting people who qualify on their standards, yet we have 5 slots available. In the past it seems those who qualified and could fund it could go, they might or might not even get some teamkit included.

 

For olympics in general there is a standard time you need to meet, For measured sports it's normally the qualifying time for a semifinal or a listed number of slots for ranking sports. In our case going through africa champs is often an easier pathway, but I think SASCOC said ranked in top50 was a requirement.

but of the elites only Greg met the qualifying criteria...

Your question is if we have 5 slots why can't we send 5 soemajus kanala, even though the others didn't qualify. So you're advocating for a concession? Then this should apply to other disciplines?

Selection criteria unfair? How so? 

IIRC, last year those that went to WC all met the qualifying criteria. So what did they not do in 2024 that got them excluded? That isn't being brought up.

The thread is sort of morphing into a #letstrashCSAagain thread but I'm not sold on the narrative yet

[Headshot]

Sincerely hoping that all you "DH Bro" disparaging commentators are proved wrong and that the very well organized WC DH committee and others manage to overturn the silly CSA decision.

 

DH racers from SA face far bigger hurdles than our XCO racers to compete overseas. Prove me wrong. 

[Jewbacca]

Wrong thread

 

Sorry

Edited July 16 by Jewbacca

[BaGearA]

5 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I will make one more comment on this and be done...

The Olympics is a farce. 

People are emotionally attached to it as they believe in the Olympic Spirit and other things they have been sold. 

The Olympics is like Diamonds and Father Christmas. It's a product that has been pushed so hard that everyone buys in without realising. 

It makes the same 7 companies billions of dollars, cripples small business in the area by not paying it's accounts, has crippled economies and brought in sport that has no business being there to create/have access to massive television rights and sponsorship.

I know this as I've worked on a few in a pretty high level organisational capacity and inadvertently been responsible for the utter ruin of peoples lives and complete disregard for the people NOT in the 'big boy' club.

When I see the expense people shell out 'just to go and be a part of it' and expect sponsors/parents/governing bodies to assist despite there being absolutely no chance of anything other than going for the sex orgy it does seem ridiculous. 

CSA are sending a lot of kids/youngsters. That's rad. They can cut their teeth at their first Olympics.

Theo Erlangsen is 29 or 30... He has had more than enough time to qualify or dedicate the 4 years in between Olympics to book his spot 

I have mates who have dedicated 3 years of their lives in a single minded pursuit of an Olympic spot. It's that sort of dedication you reward in team selection if competing for a medal isn't the reason for going.

you are very right here 

 

 

 

but this is for world champs although i don't know if others are bleeding their ideas over 

 

 

....DH is not Olympic for those that didn't know 

[DieselnDust]

11 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Sincerely hoping that all you "DH Bro" disparaging commentators are proved wrong and that the very well organized WC DH committee and others manage to overturn the silly CSA decision.

 

DH racers from SA face far bigger hurdles than our XCO racers to compete overseas. Prove me wrong. 

Seriously....?

I'd love to support a campaign to get the guys selected but still there's only plucking heart strings and no substance to the underlying issue of why they couldn't earn enough points to qualify. When I look at the event criteria table they all only scored 2 points between National series event(s), National Champs and UCI WCups Qualifying. I'm a numbers guy and 2 does not equal 3. Why is there a point short?

Is the answer too embarrassing because it appears very simple and straight forward from where I'm sitting.

I just read CSA's response on social media and it seems reasonable and balanced and talks to the facts as the numbers present them. So where's the disconnect?

Edited July 16 by DieselnDust

[Jewbacca]

Just now, BaGearA said:

you are very right here 

 

 

 

but this is for world champs although i don't know if others are bleeding their ideas over 

 

 

....DH is not Olympic for those that didn't know 

I'll edit my rant 

Oops

[PregoRoll]

15 minutes ago, Headshot said:

You're inferring that a lack of funding is the issue when that hasn't been given as the reason. Again, self-funded riders.

Go read the response I was replying to. The funding was referring to the "costs to CSA are just the stamp" which is false. 

for the most part, riders that go to WC and Olympics are self funded. thats not the issue here. 

The issue everyone is bleeting about is the lack of riders from the DH category. Which with all due respect to the speed merchants we have in SA, they arent at the level of WC riders. Why should CSA be expected to spread themselves thin for an opportunity for someone to say "I rode at WC"? I certainly didnt get that chance when I went overseas with the SA Team for road. It was down to the best riders who could get there. Simple. 

There is no Privateer category at World Champs... but there is one at the World Cup. I wonder if that is so the Privateers can have a chance to earn enough UCI points to be up for selection for the World Champs squad? 

 

Here is a small snippet from the requirements, let me know who of the riders in SA could achieve this, at the most competitive DH race of the year. 

33.2.1. Riders meeting standards and results capable of achieving the following results at the 2024 UCI World Championships.

33.2.1.1. Elite Men – Top 15

33.2.1.2. Elite Women – Top 10

33.2.1.3. Junior Men – Top 20

33.2.1.4. Junior Women – Top 10

 

Anyway. im done with this thread 

[BaGearA]

11 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Sincerely hoping that all you "DH Bro" disparaging commentators are proved wrong and that the very well organized WC DH committee and others manage to overturn the silly CSA decision.

 

DH racers from SA face far bigger hurdles than our XCO racers to compete overseas. Prove me wrong. 

Disparaging ? 

 

Stating fact doesn't mean i wish them anything bad 

 

I raced multiple races with the Purchase and Mcmaster brothers , their first hand accounts opened my eyes way more than watching some redbull streams ever would've 

[SwissVan]

10 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Sincerely hoping that all you "DH Bro" disparaging commentators are proved wrong and that the very well organized WC DH committee and others manage to overturn the silly CSA decision.

 

DH racers from SA face far bigger hurdles than our XCO racers to compete overseas. Prove me wrong. 

I R confused by the bit n black

Could you explain why?

[Shebeen]

13 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

but of the elites only Greg met the qualifying criteria...

Your question is if we have 5 slots why can't we send 5 soemajus kanala, even though the others didn't qualify. So you're advocating for a concession? Then this should apply to other disciplines?

Selection criteria unfair? How so? 

IIRC, last year those that went to WC all met the qualifying criteria. So what did they not do in 2024 that got them excluded? That isn't being brought up.

The thread is sort of morphing into a #letstrashCSAagain thread but I'm not sold on the narrative yet

 

4 minutes ago, PregoRoll said:

Go read the response I was replying to. The funding was referring to the "costs to CSA are just the stamp" which is false. 

The issue everyone is bleeting about is the lack of riders from the DH category. Which with all due respect to the speed merchants we have in SA, they arent at the level of WC riders. Why should CSA be expected to spread themselves thin for an opportunity for someone to say "I rode at WC"? I certainly didnt get that chance when I went overseas with the SA Team for road. It was down to the best riders who could get there. Simple. 

 

 

Anyway. im done with this thread 

that was me, enlighten us further then.

You're a former road elite rider, apologies if that was common knowledge? Welcome, your insight is encouraged (especially from couch experts like myself).

[Headshot]

2 minutes ago, SwissVan said:

I R confused by the bit n black

Could you explain why?

I put the ball in your court ...