weekly tss score

[J Wakefield]

I saw a video on youtube a while ago from one of the athletes that Ben (Capostagno) coaches. He mentioned that they don't really do workouts based on ftp per se, but rather on past results and how the athlete is feeling that week.

 

The logic behind it being that your ftp today may be more or less than your ftp a week ago (depending on stress factors) and they monitor improvement by looking at similar previous workouts 

 

Is this an accurate way to prescribe workouts and monitor progress, or is the traditional % of ftp an better approach?

 

that is correct, while FTP is important its not the end all. We use a method called "Polarised training" when we prescribe training to athletes. each coach will have their own personal touch to how they structure sessions and so forth buy we use the same Polarised model.

 

What you have said is also correct in terms of FTP today, tomorrow and in 3 weeks.

 

The athlete is Edward Greene and the video can be viewed here, it is honestly brilliant. 

 

[J Wakefield]

Another good video is this one to watch in terms of FTP, power meters and tracking progression 

 

[Jakkals.]

that is correct, while FTP is important its not the end all. We use a method called "Polarised training" when we prescribe training to athletes. each coach will have their own personal touch to how they structure sessions and so forth buy we use the same Polarised model.

 

What you have said is also correct in terms of FTP today, tomorrow and in 3 weeks.

 

The athlete is Edward Greene and the video can be viewed here, it is honestly brilliant. 

 

you mean Tyler Hamilton? 

Edited June 14, 2017 by antonj

[andydude]

I think there is only one way to calculate it. Using weighted time average. Weighting by workout doesn't make sense in my opinion as per the example given.

 

What program/software does S2S use? And it's probably a question for them.

 

 

... think TSS and NP is already time / weighted so might not be needed a 2nd time round for a weekly avg IF as IF is based on NP and FTP.

 

G

 

Dude --- I think you were right!! But I am still confused 

 

I did a great 1h25 ride now at 0.95 intensity and my legs, lungs and brain worked!

 

Looking at my excel sheet, I don't even calculate my weekly IF. Only my weekly time, average hr, and the other tss, atl, ctl, tsb scores.

 

Can we do an example for my simple mind?

 

Let's say one week you do 2 rides:

 

(week 1 ride 1) 1h at 0.60 IF

(week 1 ride 2) 3h at 0.90 IF

 

The straight average IF by just dividing by number of workouts would be (0.60 + 0.90) / 2 = 0.75

 

But then let's assume the next week you do only one ride, but with exactly the combined time and IF of the 2 rides above. Thus you did exactly the same time and heart rate in total.

 

(week 2 ride 1) 4h at 0.83 IF (1h at 0.60 IF plus 3h at 0.90 IF)

 

But now this is where I'm struggling. The simple average for week 1 show an IF of 0.75, but the exact same rides combined gives an IF of 0.83.

 

If you would "weight" the week 1 IF by time, it would be ((0.60 x 1) + (0.90 x 3)) / 4 = 0.83 and this is the same as in week 2.

 

Can someone please help with what they understand by this?!

[J Wakefield]

Simple to work out HR TSS:

HR TSS = Work out in min * Ave HR / (Max HR * 0.9)

[awesme]

 

 

and this is why I'm hoping John would respond, both methods make sense,

 

I have not seen anything on Coggan's or Friel's book on how to calculate a weekly avg IF.

 

 

G

 

Dude --- I think you were right!! But I am still confused 

 

I did a great 1h25 ride now at 0.95 intensity and my legs, lungs and brain worked!

 

Looking at my excel sheet, I don't even calculate my weekly IF. Only my weekly time, average hr, and the other tss, atl, ctl, tsb scores.

 

Can we do an example for my simple mind?

 

Let's say one week you do 2 rides:

 

(week 1 ride 1) 1h at 0.60 IF

(week 1 ride 2) 3h at 0.90 IF

 

The straight average IF by just dividing by number of workouts would be (0.60 + 0.90) / 2 = 0.75

 

But then let's assume the next week you do only one ride, but with exactly the combined time and IF of the 2 rides above. Thus you did exactly the same time and heart rate in total.

 

(week 2 ride 1) 4h at 0.83 IF (1h at 0.60 IF plus 3h at 0.90 IF)

 

But now this is where I'm struggling. The simple average for week 1 show an IF of 0.75, but the exact same rides combined gives an IF of 0.83.

 

If you would "weight" the week 1 IF by time, it would be ((0.60 x 1) + (0.90 x 3)) / 4 = 0.83 and this is the same as in week 2.

 

Can someone please help with what they understand by this?!

[awesme]

John,

 

Re weekly TSS,

 

Just what I've planned for myself, the actual workouts are pre build out of trainer road, using their base build and general build as templates.

 

Next 6 weeks

 

Monday-Thursday => Indoor Trainer, Wahoo Kickr,

 

Week 

1 - 300 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

2 - 300 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

3 - 310 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

4 - 332 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

5 - 340 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

6 - 210 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

 

With 

Saturday -   200-250 / 3-4 hours / Outride / 80-100km with 500-750m total ascent

Sunday -     125-150 / 2 hours / Outride / 25-40km with 650 - 850m total ascent

 

Following 8 weeks

Week 

1 - 270  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

2 - 280  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

3 - 300  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

4 - 150  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

5 - 290  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

6 - 315  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

7 - 323  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

8 - 170  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

 

Saturday -   200-250 / 3-4 hours / Outride / 80-100km with 500-750m total ascent

Sunday -     125-150 / 2 hours / Outride / 25-40km with 650 - 850m total ascent

 

 

Adds up to 500-600 week with 9-10 hours riding

 

This will be my setup from now till the week before B&B, 1 open week/rest before a race early August.

 

Happy to give you access to my TP account.

 

G

Edited June 15, 2017 by awesme

[Jaco-fiets]

John Wakefield I have a question if you don't mind.

 

When doing 4x4's what would you recommend doing the intervals at in terms of % of FTP. I assume this is VO2max adaptation intervals?

 

Also, at what % of FTP does the interval become useless in terms of the adaptation you are targeting (VO2 max I assume)?

 

Hope you see this question. Thanks in advance

[J Wakefield]

John Wakefield I have a question if you don't mind.

 

When doing 4x4's what would you recommend doing the intervals at in terms of % of FTP. I assume this is VO2max adaptation intervals?

 

Also, at what % of FTP does the interval become useless in terms of the adaptation you are targeting (VO2 max I assume)?

 

Hope you see this question. Thanks in advance

 

When doing 4min efforts at V02 I personally tell athletes to go as hard as they can that is sustainable. Typically this is done at 115% + well thats what I prescribe to clients.

 

The importance comes in when doing those also to take into consideration is the recovery between each interval. I would prescribe 2.5-3min max between. I would also go to a minimum of 6 x 4 wth a max of 8 x 4. Not really 4 x 4. I use a 4 x 4min @105% during a taper type / pre race session.

 

The % of when a interval becomes useless is when you not hitting the required numbers or zones - typically if a athlete is 10% off I tell them to stop to a degree. There are many factors why but I use the 10% rule. Also if there is a drop from 1st to last of 10% +.

 

Hope this answers the question?

[J Wakefield]

John,

 

Re weekly TSS,

 

Just what I've planned for myself, the actual workouts are pre build out of trainer road, using their base build and general build as templates.

 

Next 6 weeks

 

Monday-Thursday => Indoor Trainer, Wahoo Kickr,

 

Week 

1 - 300 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

2 - 300 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

3 - 310 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

4 - 332 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

5 - 340 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

6 - 210 / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

 

With 

Saturday -   200-250 / 3-4 hours / Outride / 80-100km with 500-750m total ascent

Sunday -     125-150 / 2 hours / Outride / 25-40km with 650 - 850m total ascent

 

Following 8 weeks

Week 

1 - 270  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

2 - 280  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

3 - 300  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

4 - 150  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

5 - 290  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

6 - 315  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

7 - 323  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

8 - 170  / Mond/Tues/Wed/Thursday, Friday=Rest

 

Saturday -   200-250 / 3-4 hours / Outride / 80-100km with 500-750m total ascent

Sunday -     125-150 / 2 hours / Outride / 25-40km with 650 - 850m total ascent

 

 

Adds up to 500-600 week with 9-10 hours riding

 

This will be my setup from now till the week before B&B, 1 open week/rest before a race early August.

 

Happy to give you access to my TP account.

 

G

 

 

Hi, 

 

I cannot train you over the Hub but the 1 factor that is missing out this question is you don't specify how you got to those values. You could for example be doing 5 days of 2 x 5min, 2hr recovery, 2 x 2min, recovery tempo, long ride. Or Z2 rides all week and a smash fest on the weekend. 

 

So to say looking at those numbers is right or wrong I have no idea how you got to them so I cannot comment unfortunately.

[Jurgens Smit]

that is correct, while FTP is important its not the end all. We use a method called "Polarised training" when we prescribe training to athletes. each coach will have their own personal touch to how they structure sessions and so forth buy we use the same Polarised model.

 

What you have said is also correct in terms of FTP today, tomorrow and in 3 weeks.

 

The athlete is Edward Greene and the video can be viewed here, it is honestly brilliant. 

 

 

This is quite an interesting approach.

 

If you don't mind, how would you guys detail a workout that revolves around % of ftp?

Such as over/unders?

 

Or does it stay the 105%/95% of ftp for the over/under interval

[J Wakefield]

This is quite an interesting approach.

 

If you don't mind, how would you guys detail a workout that revolves around % of ftp?

Such as over/unders?

 

Or does it stay the 105%/95% of ftp for the over/under interval

 

 

Dependant on athlete but 8/10 times 95% for unders 115% for the overs. Sometimes for Elite level athletes with International potential I use 100% and 118% but rarely as they cannot sustain the power and get quality out of the set.

 

I would not at all suggest this for the masses regardless of how good you think you may be! haha.

Edited June 15, 2017 by J Wakefield

[awesme]

Hi John

 

Was not asking to be trained over the web, I offered my TP access if you wanted to see whats been done TSS and time wise in the past, as you were asking what TSS the guys have been doing and how long the've been riding,

 

and then just shared what I am planning the next 3-4 months out of interest.

 

G

 

Hi, 

I cannot train you over the Hub but the 1 factor that is missing out this question is you don't specify how you got to those values. You could for example be doing 5 days of 2 x 5min, 2hr recovery, 2 x 2min, recovery tempo, long ride. Or Z2 rides all week and a smash fest on the weekend. 

So to say looking at those numbers is right or wrong I have no idea how you got to them so I cannot comment unfortunately.

[J Wakefield]

Hi John

 

Was not asking to be trained over the web, I offered my TP access if you wanted to see whats been done TSS and time wise in the past, as you were asking what TSS the guys have been doing and how long the've been riding,

 

and then just shared what I am planning the next 3-4 months out of interest.

 

G

 

I understand what you shared but as I said I don't know what training / sessions you are doing in order to get those numbers. there many ways to achieve that. Ultimately the goal is progression, if what you have set out for yourself yields improvement in performance you are on the right track. If not, then what you have prescribed is not and some changes need to be made.

 

Honestly, when I design a training program for a client I do not focus on him/her achieving a certain TSS for the week. Personally I am "against" or better said, not focused on chasing TSS and CTL, yes, it is important to a degree but many other variables come into play when doing this. I don't go "ok we need 500 TSS this week, lets do "X""

 

If a training week/month etc is done correctly progression is made and TSS is what it is end of the week. 

[awesme]

Hi John

 

Understood, this was not done with a target TSS in mind. I just shared what I am planning.

I might/should have included IF for those hours probably...

 

As you asked about TSS and hours.

 

anyhow

 

G

 

I understand what you shared but as I said I don't know what training / sessions you are doing in order to get those numbers. there many ways to achieve that. Ultimately the goal is progression, if what you have set out for yourself yields improvement in performance you are on the right track. If not, then what you have prescribed is not and some changes need to be made.

Honestly, when I design a training program for a client I do not focus on him/her achieving a certain TSS for the week. Personally I am "against" or better said, not focused on chasing TSS and CTL, yes, it is important to a degree but many other variables come into play when doing this. I don't go "ok we need 500 TSS this week, lets do "X""

If a training week/month etc is done correctly progression is made and TSS is what it is end of the week. 

[J Wakefield]

Hi John

 

Understood, this was not done with a target TSS in mind. I just shared what I am planning.

I might/should have included IF for those hours probably...

 

As you asked about TSS and hours.

 

anyhow

 

G

 

 

George,

 

I don't know what you want me to tell you or what you would like to hear? I answered on the TSS and Hours specifically where I said I don't know how you got there in terms of sessions so I am unable to tell you if it is right, good or bad or spot on for you to go to BnB with correct training and form. I cannot tell you off a series of TSS values for a week if training is correct.

 

Please read my posts again.