Adverse analytical finding in recent mountain bike stage race

[Jaco-fiets]

At least you're not corked.

 

Might be a little VA though

[Tjokkits]

This thread will go on longer than that flippen Titanic movie. My angle: nearly all men will eventually have lowered testosterone levels (ask Dr Google if you have to) - women are allowed to take hormone replacement. Many/ several/ a lot of Docs are debating, and some advocating, steroid replacement for men. Do you suggest they stop cycling? Will you be happy if they are given a TUE? I will for one not apply for a TUE and also will not stop cycling. Surely all the guys that rub their hands in glee about the mind-numbing stupidness of a 26k (possible) fine are checking everything their Dr / Pharmacist/ Tjommie at the gym is giving them for headaches. Nobody actually thinks you are a pro except your girlfriend.... If you are really a pro you must check yourself. Pro license riders steal from others when doping, us backmarkers have a life outside of cycling and will hurt nobody by doping (by accident or otherwise). Do you suggest every rural soccer game or rugby game get drug control for flu meds and weed? Well if you are not top 100ish in the Argus/ 94.7/ Epic you are merely a club player and nobody should care about what you take.

 

Agree here, many of us just want to ride our bikes, for fun and to stay in shape, we enter races for road closue or access to proper trails and the social element, why must we now suddenly go and scrutinise everything we put in our mouths, i agree if cycling is your profession or you ride compeditively you should carry that burden, just like i need to carry the burden of applying best practise and standards wrt my profession. Sensible approach would be test pro and elite leave open seeded out of it

[Wyatt Earp]

Sensible approach would be test pro and elite leave open seeded out of it

 

That is exactly how they used to operate.

[Tumbleweed]

If you were a lawyer, who would you see this?

2.2 The rules set out below are intended to be definitive and complete. Unless the rules specifically incorporate rules or

regulations of any governing body of cycling (e.g. the UCI anti-doping regulations), such rules and regulations will not

be applicable to the race.

…then…

28 Doping

28.1 The race organisers reserve the right to test all riders for doping and/or the use of any illegal substances.

28.2 All test results will be forwarded to national cycling federations, and positive results will lead to penalties as set out in

section D below.

But section D says this:

34 Applicable UCI Rules

The following section of the UCI rules and regulations will be applicable to UCI riders, and will be regarded as having been

incorporated in the race rules:

34.1 Chapter XIV – Antidoping Rules

34.2 All team managers and other licenced officials shall be required to comply with the provisions of Part 12 (Discipline and

Procedures) of the UCI regulations, and shall be subject to the sanctions set out therein

 

To me, it seems like only UCI riders are subject to Chapter XIV in which the cost of cases is covered in the section of the code which TimW quoted some pages back.

[gtr1]

If you were a lawyer, who would you see this?

2.2 The rules set out below are intended to be definitive and complete. Unless the rules specifically incorporate rules or

regulations of any governing body of cycling (e.g. the UCI anti-doping regulations), such rules and regulations will not

be applicable to the race.

…then…

28 Doping

28.1 The race organisers reserve the right to test all riders for doping and/or the use of any illegal substances.

28.2 All test results will be forwarded to national cycling federations, and positive results will lead to penalties as set out in

section D below.

But section D says this:

34 Applicable UCI Rules

The following section of the UCI rules and regulations will be applicable to UCI riders, and will be regarded as having been

incorporated in the race rules:

34.1 Chapter XIV – Antidoping Rules

34.2 All team managers and other licenced officials shall be required to comply with the provisions of Part 12 (Discipline and

Procedures) of the UCI regulations, and shall be subject to the sanctions set out therein

 

To me, it seems like only UCI riders are subject to Chapter XIV in which the cost of cases is covered in the section of the code which TimW quoted some pages back.

 

But is the part that covers their asses where it states "will be rag eroded as having been incorporated into the race rules"

 

These things become vague and the problem is you usually need a lawyer which end up costing more than the disputed amount. Like insurance companies .........but that's a whole different story.

[Tumbleweed]

But is the part that covers their asses where it states "will be rag eroded as having been incorporated into the race rules"

 

These things become vague and the problem is you usually need a lawyer which end up costing more than the disputed amount. Like insurance companies .........but that's a whole different story.

 

But "applicable to UCI riders" is the rider that is the loophole…

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

Might be a little VA though

 

Vaginally Attracted?

[Thug]

If you enter a race under the auspices of the UCI whether you are a Pro or a "Fun Rider" does that not make you legally bound to accept their rules and regulations?

[gtr1]

 

 

But "applicable to UCI riders" is the rider that is the loophole…

But what defines a UCI rider. I seem to think it extends to affiliated bodies like CSA and therefor all license holders which would include day licenses that you probably need to buy for an event like Epic. Similar to the ruling about UCI riders not riding in non-sanctioned events. It extends to all affiliated riders round the world.

 

As I said though this starts involving lawyers which costs even more.

[Wayne Potgieter]

MTBAAISAAIKLIST - Repeat after me.

 

"THIS IS GHEY, I WONT PAY!!!!!"

 

(Ghey is the only word i can think of that rhymes with pay)

[gtr1]

Problem is with these "global" contracts that we have to accept and have no choice to negotiate like insurance, banking, telco's etc. when it comes to disputes, we the small people don't have the means for a protracted legal dispute against their full-time lawyers. So in most cases we have to walk away being the ones with the proverbial pineapple.......

[Baaisikilist]

MTBAAISAAIKLIST - Repeat after me.

 

"THIS IS GHEY, I WONT PAY!!!!!"

 

(Ghey is the only word i can think of that rhymes with pay)

 

There's absolutely no way I CAN pay.

Ghey...

[Wyatt Earp]

There's absolutely no way I CAN pay.

Ghey...

 

To be very honest, if I were you, I would now retire this from The Hub and go and fight this battle in silence.

[JA-Q001]

See, the problem with the epic is all riders start together and all stand the same chance at the start of the race, to win it. It doesn't matter if you are there to social or to race, if you are a pro or a fun rider, at the start everyone has the same chance. Now, what if all 300 guys in front of him suddenly had mechanical and suddenly he's winning, its not impossible, just improbable. They wont tell him, you are a fun rider, you cannot win and if they do, I can bet you he will fight for his win. Another thing is I don't buy into this fun rider thing, that's only a way of trying to get yourself out from underneath the rules. As soon as you start upgrading a bike, because it "performs" better, then you are getting competitive, as soon as you worry about finishing or where you place, you are competitive. Like I said, its not nice being the one that got caught and in your mind you think its a waste of time, but you have an equal chance of winning, so you have an equal chance of cheating. Saying its a waste to test them is like saying its a waste to disqualify the guy that came 300th, but he took several shortcuts on the route to be able to get there.

[SwissVan]

Come on Swiss. Surely we can get past the philosophy of cheating after Barry has taken the time to admit guilt and give us the background to what has happened. Hell he even left all of his real contact info on the letters he posted to this here thread. How many people here would be genuine enough to do that alone???? Can we then accept his admission as genuine too??

 

I also don't buy the sh1te some of you are attempting to sell about having to fork out 26K because some small print instructed you to do this, on a form you didn't even glance at properly, that professional cyclists have legal representation to guide them through the consequences of before they sign, ALL because you have traces of a PED for a totally different sport, that you last took roughly half a year ago, when your life focus was something completely different. I'm all for black and white, but here there is far too much grey! That any of you want to attempt to insinuate someone of Barry's shape or size could be serious about cheating via dope for cycling is probably the most intellectually challenging and laughable effort at making sense I have seen on the hub in a long time!!! Surely the circumstances have not escaped you?? Barry must be well over 100Kgs and the Epic must have been a survival experience of note, that no doubt would leave many on this forum reaching for PEDs if they had to attempt the same feat in Barry's frame, which is NOT built for endurance!!!!

 

Are there really that few people who see the common sense in all of this??

 

Barry, you clearly have balls the size of your guns, for opening up to this crowd! The UCI and CSA efforts will probably be a walk in the park by comparison! Understand why you would take the roids for bodybuilding, which is part of the culture there, but you gotta admit you must stand out like an easy target in the cycling fraternity dude. Best of luck. Please keep us updated so that those of us objective enough to see the wood for the trees here, can see how the process actually goes and hopefully understand this much opinionated and more misunderstood part of what makes up mostly professional cycling, which we would never hear about from real pros attempting to protect a career!

 

 

The comment about cheating was a generalization and in direct reply to Myra’s question, “why would someone who is not racing dope” (presumably meaning someone who is doing it for fun and just hoping to finish) and not necessarily why I think Barry tested positive.

 

My heart tells me Barry is telling the truth, however I’m a stubborn bastid in these kind of situations and tend not to give the benefit of doubt in favor of someone who tested positive.

 

Also don’t believe that the authorities who enforce the rules have (or should have) the luxury of passing judgment based on “heart based feelings”. As far as I’m concerned all positive doping cases should be dealt with strictly following the rules that are set out and without allowing personal emotions to get involved, in other words factual evidence decides the outcome and not hearsay.

 

I’m pretty sure that Barry is not naïve and knew full well when he entered the Epic what the rules are around doping and that he would be subject to the exact same rules that the top riders are even though he was not competing to win anything.

 

WRT to the punishment that is being proposed, IMO a 2 year ban is lenient and not sufficient punishment. Just go and look how many dopers get caught again after they have served their “time”. The financial punishment proposed is probably a far better deterrent, reading this thread proves that as evident by all the protest against it.

 

Your example of Barry's size in itself is good reason why someone doing the Epic might use a product like Stanozolol, if I’m not mistaken it also aids in muscle recovery.... something which is very relevant to the Epic. Basically that’s all beside the point, it’s a banned product and he tested positive for it and had not denied taking it.

 

Extreme bad luck in his case that for some (seemingly strange and absurd reason) he was targeted, tested positive for a genuine PED not something swallowed accidental and possibly irrelevant to performance and worth arguing about.

 

This is all a generalization about doping, dopers and how I feel they should be treated, it’s not aimed personally at Barry. I would be towing the same line if it was some unnamed participant whose identity has not been revealed.

[Tubehunter]

 

I’m pretty sure that Barry is not naïve and knew full well when he entered the Epic what the rules are around doping and that he would be subject to the exact same rules that the top riders are even though he was not competing to win anything.

 

 

Perhaps we should do a poll on this and find out how many people riding the Epic to finish it, versus racing it for a placing are worried about this?? Based on the above statement, you might be surprised!!!! Which in turn turns the rest of the process into a farce.

 

Barry, please tell the UCI you will pay them back ALL of the winnings you have EVER made from cycling as acceptance of your guilt... And that amounts to how much exactly?? Yes, we're really sorting out doping in cycling today baby!