Shocking incident between van driver and cyclists in Camps Bay

[Meentb]

I can see this on 2014 stats as most viewed topic in the shortest time.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Dunno about you, X, but to me, 20 cyclists ganging up on a single occupant (driver) of a parked vehicle, activating a sustained mace hit from a metre or so away, assault with the wheel of a bike, forcible damage to the van in question and multiple punches to the face are so far removed from self defence that to label it as such is frankly disgusting. If that's what you class as self defence, your viewpoints and opinions need drastic change.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

In this case, self defence would have been to ride away in the opposite direction as quickly as possible. That is the only way to defend yourself against a person in a car who is out to get you. Even IF the guys in the van had thrown stuff at them, to chase them down and wilfully and with full intent do what they did can in no way be categorised as self defence. That would be categorised as malicious damage to property and assault.

[canadonis]

 

Zakkie, I say this out of concern about the general anger in the cycling community over this incident. I presume you are somehow connected, so please encourage members of Muhammedeyah cycling club to wear non-club kit on Sunday. A mob mentality is a nasty thing and vigilante justice even worse.

 

I was not in any way involved in the incident and I'm sure many members of mcc were not either. The club has complied with the requests of the Cycle tour and PPA management and unless circumstances have changed MCC and its members have not been banned from riding the tour.

 

The MCC club has done sterling work in many impoverished communities and it's unfortunate the actions of a few have tarnished their reputation.

 

I am going to proudly wear a MCC cycle jersey on argus day to represent the good work the club has done over the years.

[Mr X]

Dunno about you, X, but to me, 20 cyclists ganging up on a single occupant (driver) of a parked vehicle, activating a sustained mace hit from a metre or so away, assault with the wheel of a bike, forcible damage to the van in question and multiple punches to the face are so far removed from self defence that to label it as such is frankly disgusting. If that's what you class as self defence, your viewpoints and opinions need drastic change.

 

Yeah, sorry I am not stating that it might be self defense in this case, I just wanted to throw a spanner into that function, my point being that not all violence is bad.

 

As for Peach I not do see him as condoning this violence but that he chooses to want to know more before judging, and I have no problem with that. As for Peach stating that sometimes a PK is required, that is a bit harsh but sometimes I think the same.

[Blackbeard]

Who is this amanda person?

Zakkie's sister/brother/cousin?

[marko35s]

In this case, self defence would have been to ride away in the opposite direction as quickly as possible. That is the only way to defend yourself against a person in a car who is out to get you. Even IF the guys in the van had thrown stuff at them, to chase them down and wilfully and with full intent do what they did can in no way be categorised as self defence. That would be categorised as malicious damage to property and assault.

Yep.

Self defence stops when the threat ends or is terminated after which it becomes assault.

There used to be a standard applied to cases where self defence was claimed called the reasonable man test (not sure if it is still used at all). The theory was simple - look at a persons actions and decide if a reasonable (or average) man would have done the same under the circumstances. In this case there is no way the actions of that group could be deemed reasonable.

 

Edited March 4, 2014 by marko35s

[Tubehunter]

But to some extent we have to admit that as a group in society known as cyclists, we are properly tense for good reason. I know of 3 cases of daylight robbery on roads in the peninsula over the past week alone. Let's not begin discussing how many cyclists have perished at the hands of motorists in the past year. Going for a ride has turned into a real struggle for survival and those of us deeply committed to enjoying this past time are feeling the very real anger that comes with the realization that a quick ride may well be our last. On this knife edge it won't take much to fly off the handle as is evidence here.

 

For this reason I am really hoping that we get to hear the full story of events, but doubt this will be public until formalities have been completed. One part still bothering me.

 

I've read the report from the chap who recorded the video but think the beginning of the altercation between this group of cyclists and the van in question happened before the video taking driver came into eye contact with any of this lot and his opinion on the reason for this will be based entirely on his own view of events when he arrived on the scene.

 

Couple of posters on the thread have indicated they saw what actually went down. Any chance we can get some insight too please? Many of us are trying to understand what could bring a group of cyclists to this level of aggression as much as we don't condone or encourage it?

 

 

[eeeek]

Below quoted from a Wikipedia article on crowd psychology:

Emergent norm theory allows for both positive and negative mob types, as the distinctive characteristics and behaviors of key figures can be positive or negative in nature. An antisocial leader can incite violent action, but an influential voice of non-violence in a crowd can lead to a mass sit-in.^[1]

 

I think the mistake all the "there must have been something that ticked them off" proponents are making is in assuming that all those involved were reasonable persons - the above theory would indicate that at least one was not.

[Maniax]

Copy of Letter I sent to Siphesihle Dube

 

 

1. How did this become about taxi's? I dont see any taxi's in the video or in the eyewitness account?

2. Who is Amanda? What wind blew her in? Because, she just made it worse....

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

Yeah, sorry I am not stating that it might be self defense in this case, I just wanted to throw a spanner into that function, my point being that not all violence is bad.

 

As for Peach I not do see him as condoning this violence but that he chooses to want to know more before judging, and I have no problem with that. As for Peach stating that sometimes a PK is required, that is a bit harsh but sometimes I think the same.

 

Yeah, look - I view it like this - all violence is bad. Period.

 

However. There are certain situations in which violence becomes the only possible avenue in a situation. Such as someone trying to knock you the fk out, rape, fighting etc. Either you need to deter them or, as a final avenue, a quick sharp violent retaliation is needed.

[canadonis]

 

Guys idk why you all need evidence before the fact if all the PPA etc need to see the facts and decide on an outcome... what more could you as individual possibly need...

 

FACT

 

The Western Province Cycling Association says they will take disciplinary action against two members of the Muhammadeyah Cycling Club in Wynberg

 

would not condone this behaviour from someone who has used a bicycle for 1 day.. let alone a pelaton of riders from a club, in that clubs uniform, under the name of their prophet.(sorry not bringing in religion .. its just facts)

 

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE ACCORDING TO THE PPA AND VARIOUS BODIES !!

 

if you are in a club and cycle under these bodies why is it not to you?

 

It's the freedom of expression which this forum allows whether you agree with it or not argue a point. Yes all agrees with your facts but do we have all the 'facts' at our disposal, understand this by no means justifies their actions but we need to allow them share their perspectives.

[Wyatt Earp]

No, the biker got off and pointed a gun at the driver first and struck him over the head, the driver then shot him in self defense.......

 

 

 

 

 

In the back ?

Yeah, I see how that's self defense.

[marko35s]

 

Yeah, look - I view it like this - all violence is bad. Period.

 

However. There are certain situations in which violence becomes the only possible avenue in a situation. Such as someone trying to knock you the fk out, rape, fighting etc. Either you need to deter them or, as a final avenue, a quick sharp violent retaliation is needed.

On that complete tangent are you coming back to bruise more ribs on friday?

[marko35s]

 

In the back ?

Yeah, I see how that's self defense.

He was defending his ego...

[Mr X]

In the back ?

Yeah, I see how that's self defense.

 

I might be wrong here but last time I heard there was shots fired from both of them (?), and if this is the case it is very possible to shoot someone in the back in a gun fight.