Tokai and Silvermine to remain closed to the public

[DJR]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

Personally I will have ZERO sympathy for you and will encourage SANParks to throw the whole book at you if you get caught.

 

This means a R2500 fine. If you give them lip, they can confiscate your bike, like they can a car used to smuggle perlemoen (the law says they may do that if it is used in committing a crime. You will be trespassing, which is a crime.)

 

My reason for reacting so strongly is simple:

 

If you willfully ride there when it is forbidden, you will be putting the TOTAL closure of Tokai, for everyone, for ever, on the cards. If you want to endanger the whole future of Tokai, for all mountainbikers, you should expect strong reaction to a supremely selfish act. 

[(Deon)]

It is the 1st of April, so there's that too.

 

But DJR is right. What does Table Mountain National Park really need to give us if we behave like idiots on the mountain.. more?

 

The same sentiment was expressed around all of Tokai's illegal tracks. Guess none saw the area being closed as a reality.. now the reps are being told to go and demand access sooner. Your hand was shown then, be ready for distrust now. Simple. 

[(Deon)]

I posted the new dates for the Park Planning info session here.

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/148925-2015-tmnp-park-planning-info-session/

[popcorn_skollie]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

 

This is what worries me. I've already overheard guys talking about riding Tokai anyways.

And, at the same time challenging SANparks ability to enforce the proposed penalties if caught doing so. All I can think is. Seriously, why do you have to risk ******* it up for the rest of us?

 

Table Mountain being overcrowded as of late just compounds the issue.

The more I hear about it. The more I think theres an accident waiting to happen there.

 

Tygerberg has seen alot more traffic because of the Tokai's closure too. While the northern trails may be welcoming to new members. They won't be so welcoming to the rogue riders. (I have already heard about incidents)

 

Tokai's closure has resulted in a domino effect of trouble across the peninsular. 

I'm not sure that an 18 month blanket closure is the right solution

[(Deon)]

This is what worries me. I've already overheard guys talking about riding Tokai anyways.

And, at the same time challenging SANparks ability to enforce the proposed penalties if caught doing so. All I can think is. Seriously, why do you have to risk ******* it up for the rest of us?

 

Table Mountain being overcrowded as of late just compounds the issue.

The more I hear about it. The more I think theres an accident waiting to happen there.

 

Tygerberg has seen alot more traffic because of the Tokai's closure too. While the northern trails may be welcoming to new members. They won't be so welcoming to the rogue riders. (I have already heard about incidents)

 

Tokai's closure has resulted in a domino effect of trouble across the peninsular. 

I'm not sure that an 18 month blanket closure is the right solution

Nor do I. Assuming we could manage ourselves I would say it was the worst decision ever.

Edited April 1, 2015 by (insert name here..)
sp

[marko35s]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

Let me simplify this for you...

Its self centered idiots that 'think' like this that will end up not just re-entry into Tokai difficult but plans for improved trails in the future far more difficult to implement.

Edited April 1, 2015 by marko35s

[Eddy Gordo]

I like the fact that Tygerberg is so strict. I so wish that all these rogue riders get caught and banned from races!!

 

We all miss tokai, but its now a matter of patience. What if it was your house that burned down?

 

You will have to put in an insurance claim

You will have to wait for it to be processed

You will have to wait on builders to decide when they want to come and work

o, and lets not forget about the lengthy process of getting your building plans passed

 

There is no quick way, only a corrupt way and in the end there will be nothing cause of selfishness.

[Headshot]

Tubed.

 

You pay a lot of attention to signage and prosecution. You would almost be saying the the mtb'er can't be trusted and for those who still don't respond to penalty, should face a sentence tougher than law.

 

Then you go on to say that you only want to share wide jeep track where we can build on relationships with all users. You, in the space of one paragraph, now trust the mtb'er to grant you your wish? Maybe today you will get 100 likes and 50 shares. wishlists generate a lot of enthusiasm..

 

From placing a sign at every entry, exit, intersection, and with several reminders along the way warning of penalty for not obeying the rules in existence since 2002 - to the warm and fuzzies by accepting second best with the hope of building relationships by the same group for which every sign is intended, is quite a leap of faith that after a year your signs are still respected and that new trails have not popped up along the way.

 

The reality is that this is all currently underway but at every point and turn in the road, there is always someone who cannot apply even the slightest bit of restraint when trying to "convert" the other users - like swearing at a 72 year old lady and showing her the finger in your branded cycling kit. (I met her btw). Or screaming inches passed a group of walkers with children (I met them too). Or building illegally because your 'only sharing' status sets a precedent for another lengthy timeframe before money is raised and an opportunity is available to us again. (How long should be be prepared to share?)

 

You could be forgiven for think everyone will respect your campaign in a year because today, on paper, it looks fantastic and for that I will like your two posts above.

 

OR, are you saying that every mtb'er should now try a new shift in thinking and respect the wishes of those working to make reality what you propose? Let's hope you have better luck or maybe the circumstance is now prime with all the closures for each to finally "give it a go". You have my support!

 

Personally I will have ZERO sympathy for you and will encourage SANParks to throw the whole book at you if you get caught.

 

This means a R2500 fine. If you give them lip, they can confiscate your bike, like they can a car used to smuggle perlemoen (the law says they may do that if it is used in committing a crime. You will be trespassing, which is a crime.)

 

My reason for reacting so strongly is simple:

 

If you willfully ride there when it is forbidden, you will be putting the TOTAL closure of Tokai, for everyone, for ever, on the cards. If you want to endanger the whole future of Tokai, for all mountainbikers, you should expect strong reaction to a supremely selfish act. 

They will never ever get away with a total ban on cycling. They probably do like the idea though because they hate having to manage bikes and other activities and the user issues and so on. 

 

They have used the fire as a reason to close vast swathes of the moungtain off for an extremely long period. If they had a more community based approach, they would have been more forthcoming. How much ill will have they generated towards them by the long closure? If Cape Point had been burned as badly do you think, as their main money spinner it would be closed? Not likely - busses of tourists would still be hitting the place anyway. Thats a R90 bar per annum cash cow. Sadly, a few mountain bikers local or otherwise, dont count for as much revenue so far more easy to exclude..

 

I dont condone breaking rules for no reason, but when rules are imposed that seem to be unfair it is human nature to feel aggrieved and people react.   

 

Look at Cape Nature and Jonkers - partially opened. Trail builders have been in to check and close off dangerous trails and the place will possibly fully open again in six months. Thats what i'd like to be seeing and hearing from the TMNP side.

[Eddy Gordo]

From the pics that I have seen, tokai has been burned to almost nothing whereas Jonkers burn was not as severe.

 

Its understandable as to why Jonkers has opened certain areas, unfortunately Tokai dont have that privelage.

 

 

People break rules every single day, jumping stop streets speeding etc, maybe everyone who feels aggrieved should put their concerns in a nice way in writing and take it up with the mayor

Edited April 1, 2015 by Eddy Gordo

[tubed]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

reminds me of some of the guys I used to surf with, all trying to grow up now, but the real world is a hard place, cant just burn people cause you want to, it catches up with you

[Headshot]

From the pics that I have seen, tokai has been burned to almost nothing whereas Jonkers burn was not as severe.

 

Its understandable as to why Jonkers has opened certain areas, unfortunately Tokai dont have that privelage.

 

 

People break rules every single day, jumping stop streets speeding etc, maybe everyone who feels aggrieved should put their concerns in a nice way in writing and take it up with the mayor

You may be right on the scale of the burn, but large numbers of still green pines remain at both places and the fynbos/veldt looks the same in the pics I have seen ie burned to the ground.

 

Jonkers is bigger and the structure of the slopes may well be a bit different, so I am prepared to be convinced that there are differences, other than the management style of those who control the places.

 

The fact is TMNP does not appear to have considered the reaction to the closure and the inevitable pressure on other venues in the Park. I am sure there are more hikers visiting other areas because of Silvermines closure too.

 

I wonder what they will do about it - other than suggest that we bother the City and ride in green belts.

 

Oh, and I am not suggesting for a minute that people should challenge the ban by breaking it and riding there. The pen may well be mightier than the sword. Last time I looked the Cape Times still had a letters page...

Edited April 1, 2015 by Headshot

[Slowbee]

I drove the car over ou kaaps to see if I could see things flowering.

 

Lots of cars parked at designated places and people walking into the burnt areas.

 

I could see many of the "old tracks".

 

Sadly people like kellyslater, will not contain themselves. Now that the vegetation is gone they will carve themselves new lines riding on sand and areas that should not be ridden on. I see this attitude as one that will ultimately see TMNP being closed officially to mountain bikers for a long time to come. There are just way to many rotten apples that will ruin the hard work so many good apples do.

[Slowbee]

 

The fact is TMNP does not appear to have considered the reaction to the closure and the inevitable pressure on other venues in the Park. I am sure there are more hikers visiting other areas because of Silvermines closure too.

 

On Sunday there were alot of cars parked at the silvermine entrance (but the boom was down) and it was clear people had walked into the park.

[Nimby]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

And this is why the vast majority of non-cyclists regard all cyclists as selfish, arrogant and inconsiderate...

[(Deon)]

We continue to look at the closure from one side, specifically how we are displaced and inconvenienced for it.

 

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it but there are just quick thoughts about what we all want, but how to get it based on our history.

• What could anyone offer as reassurance to Table Mountain National Park that riders/walkers/horse riders will remain in designated areas and on designated trails?
• How long could you guarantee it?
• What happens when your word cannot be kept by, let's say 5 people who continue to evade rangers?
• Does Table Mountain National Park now have to redirect their efforts to controlling 3 usergroups?
• What do you think the feeling would be at the table when the committee meets to discuss more trails? 

Just questions. They don't need answering but at the least consider our past.

[DJR]

They will never ever get away with a total ban on cycling. ................

I hope that you are right on this one.

 

What worries me is that SANParks will now, for the first time, get a taste of what it feels like to have the mountain closed to cyclists. We all imagine that they will bleed from the lost revenue and come to their senses and let us back on the mountain ASAP. Well, think about the possibility that SANParks may just come to the conclusion that they like the mountain free of troublesome cyclists. I can easily imagine them finding it much more convenient. All it takes is for a senior manager to justify a permanent ban on environmental or biodiversity grounds. Few arguments will stand against that.

 

That is why working together and having respect for each other, is the only long term solution.