Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[Andrew Steer]

4 hours ago, ScottCM said:

There he is. The original undertrained athlete himself. Dude, every time I think to myself that I'm undertrained I say to myself, "Andrew would make this work on race day!" 

Haha... I'm glad I inspire at least one person to do something on the edge of their comfort zone. Last year was probably taking it a bit too far, definitely could have gone wrong, and probably only got away with it because it was a down...
Still a firm believer in, quality over quantity - don't have to run your body into the ground as prep

PS: This is obviously just coming from my view and my modest goals. The race snakes are a whole other bunch and mentality
 

[Andrew Steer]

4 hours ago, Shebeen said:

320km....sjoe i need to go back a year on this thread to see how that worked out?

I'm just short of 900km since jan1, with a good 100km of hiking in there too.

Wanted to have done 1000km, but don't think that's going to happen now. I guess everyone says they wish they'd done more.

I have followed the Comrades Mtshali program that you download off the site. Kind of used it as a guide mainly, and then done hills/recovery runs when they are set. Looking back I have done about 85% of the requirement. I think my top week was 80km distance wise.

 

BUT haven't got injured, which was the main goal.

 

 

 

 

I'll save you some searching... got 10:40 last year. Things went about as well as they could have - got lucky I guess. I obviously did some things right though. 

Sounds like you're well prepped and your athletic history and probably most importantly, your mental strength will serve you very well on the day. Sub 10 also a great choice to target for your first year...
You're gonna love it, such a cool day... just enjoy the s#1t out of it, the first ones so special.

Being healthy, well rested and having a full tank (mentally and physically) is way more important for race day than a few more kays in the legs

[saggy]

20 minutes ago, Andrew Steer said:

I'll save you some searching... got 10:40 last year. Things went about as well as they could have - got lucky I guess. I obviously did some things right though. 

Sounds like you're well prepped and your athletic history and probably most importantly, your mental strength will serve you very well on the day. Sub 10 also a great choice to target for your first year...
You're gonna love it, such a cool day... just enjoy the s#1t out of it, the first ones so special.

Being healthy, well rested and having a full tank (mentally and physically) is way more important for race day than a few more kays in the legs

Jees 10:40 on 320km is very impressive

I was expecting you to say 11:55

[ChrisF]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

HTFU or get something with a zip.

 

Okay, zip it is 🤪

[b-rad]

5 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Rookie question ....

 

As winter sets in, the Park Walk events are starting a few minutes before sunrise, thus properly chilly morning air .... heaven forbid there is a bit of a breeze.

 

First event I was underdressed ....

 

Last event I only had one hot top ... sweating like a pig, but could not take it off as it was too cold.

 

 

 

Any tips ?

 

I see some participants use a fleece top, which is tied around their waist when the morning heats up.

Lightweight long sleeve kind of running T-shirt style or very lightweight wind breaker. Or are warmers you can just slide off. Buff, light gloves, and cap. Should be plenty. 
 

Or the other comment too 😉 let’s be honest it’s not exactly European winter conditions 😅
 

[ChrisF]

20 minutes ago, b-rad said:

Lightweight long sleeve kind of running T-shirt style or very lightweight wind breaker. Or are warmers you can just slide off. Buff, light gloves, and cap. Should be plenty. 
 

Or the other comment too 😉 let’s be honest it’s not exactly European winter conditions 😅
 

 

Thank you 👍

 

Real winter cold might be better ....

 

This chilly start to a hot finish is more of a logistics exercise ...

[CobusV]

1 hour ago, b-rad said:

Lightweight long sleeve kind of running T-shirt style or very lightweight wind breaker. Or are warmers you can just slide off. Buff, light gloves, and cap. Should be plenty. 
 

Or the other comment too 😉 let’s be honest it’s not exactly European winter conditions 😅
 

I've now been in Ireland for 2 winters. If it is more than 5 degrees outside, anything more than a t-shirt is overkill. If it is below 5, I add gloves and long sleeve shirt...

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, CobusV said:

I've now been in Ireland for 2 winters. If it is more than 5 degrees outside, anything more than a t-shirt is overkill. If it is below 5, I add gloves and long sleeve shirt...

 

It is interesting to see the spread of participants at a Park Run.

 

Few in shorts and T.shirts.

 

Most with long sleeve tops and full length pants.

 

And what a spread of jackets ... from the thinnest to some seriously thick and warm ones.

 

 

O.well ... let the learning commence.  Trying the thin light jacket tomorrow 👍

[b-rad]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:10 PM, ChrisF said:

 

It is interesting to see the spread of participants at a Park Run.

 

Few in shorts and T.shirts.

 

Most with long sleeve tops and full length pants.

 

And what a spread of jackets ... from the thinnest to some seriously thick and warm ones.

 

 

O.well ... let the learning commence.  Trying the thin light jacket tomorrow 👍

How did the light jacket go?
 

[ChrisF]

15 minutes ago, b-rad said:

How did the light jacket go?
 

Please dont tell @Shebeen, but a teespoon of cement was a better idea.

 

 

By the time the event started very few braved short sleeves ... after 2km of climbing jackets were ripped off ....

 

 

for a colder start a lightweight jacket would make sense.  But a bit of chill at the start makes much more sense, than lugging about a jacket for 8km ...

 

 

300m climbing in the first 5km 😵‍💫

 

My first 10km event.  Was not impressed after all that effort that the total distance fell short by a few hundred meters ... 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

VERY happy with my progress 🙏

 

 

 

Thanks for all the idees.

 

 

Next time I will take two jackets ... a very light weight also a slightly warmer one.  Then make the call just before the start.

 

 

Actually wondering about those sleeveless windbreakers we use on the bikes for the morning chill .... might help at the start, and a heck of a lot easier to pack away after a few kilos ....

Edited May 27, 2024 by ChrisF

[Vetplant]

11 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Please dont tell @Shebeen, but a teespoon of cement was a better idea.

By the time the event started very few braved short sleeves ... after 2km of climbing jackets were ripped off ....

for a colder start a lightweight jacket would make sense.  But a bit of chill at the start makes much more sense, than lugging about a jacket for 8km ...

300m climbing in the first 5km 😵‍💫

My first 10km event.  Was not impressed after all that effort that the total distance fell short by a few hundred meters ... 🤦🏻‍♂️

VERY happy with my progress 🙏

Thanks for all the idees.

Next time I will take two jackets ... a very light weight also a slightly warmer one.  Then make the call just before the start.

Actually wondering about those sleeveless windbreakers we use on the bikes for the morning chill .... might help at the start, and a heck of a lot easier to pack away after a few kilos ....

Most of us can probably get by with less clothes than we think. Just need to avoid the cold wind before the race start.

For me, gloves are the first thing I need as the temperatures drop. Next is arm warmers. Then long tights. And only on the coldest morning do I put on a light First Ascent windbreaker. 
(Disclaimer, this all is in the highveld winters, so zero precipitation. Cape will be different) 

[MongooseMan]

23 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

Most of us can probably get by with less clothes than we think. Just need to avoid the cold wind before the race start.

For me, gloves are the first thing I need as the temperatures drop. Next is arm warmers. Then long tights. And only on the coldest morning do I put on a light First Ascent windbreaker. 
(Disclaimer, this all is in the highveld winters, so zero precipitation. Cape will be different) 

Gloves are very underrated, and very easy to stow in a pocket when you do take them off.

my goto at the moment is a long sleeve running top and gloves. As I warm up the sleeves get shunted up the arms above the elbows, and then finally the gloves come off. Works well.

[ScottCM]

The human body is something amazing. For someone growing up in Durban, I can clearly remember a day that it was "ABSOLUTELY FREEZING" outside and topped out at 10ºC on the day. Everyone including myself had thick jackets on. In my defence, my employment at the time was outdoor based so I was wet to the bone but I digress.

I then lived in Jhb for 15 years and my body had adjusted accordingly and at 10ºC I would run with a Gillet / windbreaker, gloves & Long sleeve running top. Now that we live here in The North, my body has acclimatised once again. 2ºC or warmer is short sleeve Running shirt, shorts and very thin gloves (my hands are always cold when running). -2º up to 2ºC is cotton T shirt, Shorts, ear warmers and thicker gloves. <-3ºC is long sleeve cotton top, Long sleeve running top, gloves, beanie and shorts (sometimes colder than -6ºC would bring out the long tights, all wind dependent).

This topic has played on my mind since the event I did in the beginning of the moth where I suffered from the humidity. All I can think of is, "How will I manage at comrades either 2025 or 2026 if I am battling in this" 

[b-rad]

1 hour ago, ScottCM said:

The human body is something amazing. For someone growing up in Durban, I can clearly remember a day that it was "ABSOLUTELY FREEZING" outside and topped out at 10ºC on the day. Everyone including myself had thick jackets on. In my defence, my employment at the time was outdoor based so I was wet to the bone but I digress.

I then lived in Jhb for 15 years and my body had adjusted accordingly and at 10ºC I would run with a Gillet / windbreaker, gloves & Long sleeve running top. Now that we live here in The North, my body has acclimatised once again. 2ºC or warmer is short sleeve Running shirt, shorts and very thin gloves (my hands are always cold when running). -2º up to 2ºC is cotton T shirt, Shorts, ear warmers and thicker gloves. <-3ºC is long sleeve cotton top, Long sleeve running top, gloves, beanie and shorts (sometimes colder than -6ºC would bring out the long tights, all wind dependent).

This topic has played on my mind since the event I did in the beginning of the moth where I suffered from the humidity. All I can think of is, "How will I manage at comrades either 2025 or 2026 if I am battling in this" 

Cotton T-shirt or do you mean a slightly thicker moisture wicking type shirt? Personally I’d stay away from cotton in colder weather. A sweat soaked shirt in cold winds is not ideal😅

 

[dave303e]

2 hours ago, ScottCM said:

The human body is something amazing. For someone growing up in Durban, I can clearly remember a day that it was "ABSOLUTELY FREEZING" outside and topped out at 10ºC on the day. Everyone including myself had thick jackets on. In my defence, my employment at the time was outdoor based so I was wet to the bone but I digress.

I then lived in Jhb for 15 years and my body had adjusted accordingly and at 10ºC I would run with a Gillet / windbreaker, gloves & Long sleeve running top. Now that we live here in The North, my body has acclimatised once again. 2ºC or warmer is short sleeve Running shirt, shorts and very thin gloves (my hands are always cold when running). -2º up to 2ºC is cotton T shirt, Shorts, ear warmers and thicker gloves. <-3ºC is long sleeve cotton top, Long sleeve running top, gloves, beanie and shorts (sometimes colder than -6ºC would bring out the long tights, all wind dependent).

This topic has played on my mind since the event I did in the beginning of the moth where I suffered from the humidity. All I can think of is, "How will I manage at comrades either 2025 or 2026 if I am battling in this" 

I know exactly how you feel.

Also spent a lot of childhood in Durban and my first winter at Tuks was a rude awakening. I got used to that quickly, then this year due to the odd commute and a young child in the house I was running at 3am some days. In March there were a few really really cold mornings and after a few weeks it was just short sleeve and gloves.

If you watch paddlers, they are the best at managing cold and wet. It is always an interesting one for me watching the die hard Dabs paddlers go through winter time trials.

From Adventure racing we have built big experience in managing the cold and what layers work where. The biggest thing I have found is calorie intake and glycogen stores dictates a lot of what you can manage. If you have a good supply of energy you can burn it to keep warm. When you are exhaustion point you will really need more and more layers and will battle a lot more. Watch events like Race to Rhodes  and other multi day events. The kit that the guys would cycle in a 0 deg training ride is not always enough for when they hit 0 deg on the third day of riding non stop.

Last year at ARWC, the paddle was "chilly" some would call it "fresh"... Our team mistimed it. This meant we had to start the paddle at 8am on the 3rd morning of the race. We did not sleep on the 1st and 3rd nights, we slept 2 hours on the 2nd night. So we started the paddle having last slept 28 hours before that and the night before the paddle was miserable, there was a ridiculous storm which hit as we were on an exposed ridgeline. The next morning we all paddled with all our cold gear, gloves, rain jackets and pants on. When we finished the paddle we were all borderline hypothermic, like battling to open backpacks and shivering uncontrollably cold. Teams that had a good sleep and a warm meal before starting the paddle were fine and had minimal issues with the cold.

So you get used to it to a point, but your physical state also has a massive impact on the cold.

51 minutes ago, b-rad said:

Cotton T-shirt or do you mean a slightly thicker moisture wicking type shirt? Personally I’d stay away from cotton in colder weather. A sweat soaked shirt in cold winds is not ideal😅

 

Cotton Kills(or so they say)

[Shebeen]

17 hours ago, ChrisF said:

Please dont tell @Shebeen, but a teespoon of cement was a better idea.

 

glad you were paying attention!

If it's borderline jacket/no jacket territory, a buff can be a handy compromise.

beanie mode/headband mode covering ears/sweatband mode/neck gaitor mode/wristband mode gives you a range of heating options and something else to think about.