Hunting - yes or no?

[Chris_]

NEVER hunt from a vehicle, its unethical. All the people I know who hunt only hunt for the meat. I wont say no to trophy hunters either. We use the meat too. But if they wound an animal, they won't be invited back. If you wound an animal you HAVE to find it, that entails a lot of walking. I won't let that go.

 

You sound like a very thoughtful farmer so I'm not asking this looking for a fight, but rather sound reasoning. But why do you think hunting from a vehicle is unethical. 

[leeubok]

Pump your brakes and don't put words in my mouth.

 

I never said that I was right, you will also note that I dont tell you what you should and shouldn't do. 

 

I however retain my right to call people who enjoy killing animals for the sake of killing animals whatever I like.

Patch, I have always enjoyed reading your posts. Usually you are the one to come in during a heated debate and talk some sense into people. I'm disappointed that you chose to not do that in this thread but rather resort to calling people you don't agree with names. 

[leeubok]

I think sport hunting whether its for you to take photos with or to take home as cheap biltong is disgusting. Sport should not involve death. 

 

Hunting to cull - I have long battled with. I grew up around game reserves and career farmers so I've always been of a single-sided belief. The problem I have is that game reserves/farms are man made constructs. So when the numbers of elephants begin crushing ALL the trees get out of hand, we blame over population and cut down the numbers of ellies. Or when x buck, or whatever gets out of hand, we trim the numbers. Humans made this design, is it not our fault for the poor balance? 

 

The problem is I love animals, love the outdoors, love seeing them underwater or running around in the most natural habitat possible. So while there may be a legitimate reason for conservation culling, I'd rather like to see it avoided.

Yes, humans are the problem. That's why I said Kruger is probably the only reserve big enough to allow natural processes and we don't have to interfere. However, all we can do now is try and conserve every little piece of land that is in a natural state. Whether it is 10 ha, 100 000 ha, has a fence around it or not. My whole argument is that whether you like it or not, hunting contributes to the conservation of these pieces of land. No-one has yet given evidence to the contrary here. 

[Stretch]

not this again

 

Cecil the lion propmpted this debate just recently

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/152703-rip-cecil-the-lion/?hl=cecil

[leeubok]

not this again

 

Cecil the lion propmpted this debate just recently

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/152703-rip-cecil-the-lion/?hl=cecil

That was 3 years ago.. And this thread was supposed to have a simple answer to "does hunting contribute to conservation?"

[Mousea]

Yes, humans are the problem. That's why I said Kruger is probably the only reserve big enough to allow natural processes and we don't have to interfere. However, all we can do now is try and conserve every little piece of land that is in a natural state. Whether it is 10 ha, 100 000 ha, has a fence around it or not. My whole argument is that whether you like it or not, hunting contributes to the conservation of these pieces of land. No-one has yet given evidence to the contrary here. 

Without Hunting the Animals would not have a value nor would their habitats be conserved.

Without a value they would NOT be bred for reward and they would Not be conserved .

Hunting brings in a way bigger value per person than a person with a camera contributing to the survival of species and habitats

[Stretch]

That was 3 years ago.. And this thread was supposed to have a simple answer to "does hunting contribute to conservation?"

Anna they was discussed in that thread for sure....

[Rouxenator]

Yes, I like it, and the meat. Springbok fillets on the braai... mmmm

[Patchelicious]

Patch, I have always enjoyed reading your posts. Usually you are the one to come in during a heated debate and talk some sense into people. I'm disappointed that you chose to not do that in this thread but rather resort to calling people you don't agree with names.

You are again putting words in my mouth. I’m not sure I called anybody names. I did say that the arguments of hunting as an industry doesn’t speak to the people who get boners from killing animals though.

 

Edit: Perhaps that was a tangent that I should not have started. And to be clear, no I do not put ALL hunters in the same group. You should know that I hate absolutes. 

 

So more to your point.

 

Like I said, arguments can be made that support hunting, but I am sure that there are alternatives that will have both pro's and cons.

 

The danger that we have here is that I suppose those that this will go down the line of all identity polices there days, and that it will "pro hunter" will dispute all alternatives, and those oppose hunting will see the alternatives as the only solution. 

 

Couldn't we also say that the need to cull and conserve is a need created by ourselves too?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Patchelicious

[deanbean]

You sound like a very thoughtful farmer so I'm not asking this looking for a fight, but rather sound reasoning. But why do you think hunting from a vehicle is unethical.

You can get far closer to a prey animal on a vehicle. It doesn't give the animal a chance. I don't shoot further than 50m, and will take most at between 15 and 20m.

The whole ethics is about giving your prey a chance. I'll spend an afternoon stalking a single animal. I put more value on the experience the harder it is.

 

That sounds like I like hunting. I'm not mad about it, but i love venison, and so do my extended family, so I get pestered from May for biltong. They didn't get any this year. I'd rather ride my bike on a Sat tbh.

[Chris_]

You can get far closer to a prey animal on a vehicle. It doesn't give the animal a chance. I don't shoot further than 50m, and will take most at between 15 and 20m.

The whole ethics is about giving your prey a chance. I'll spend an afternoon stalking a single animal. I put more value on the experience the harder it is.

 

That sounds like I like hunting. I'm not mad about it, but i love venison, and so do my extended family, so I get pestered from May for biltong. They didn't get any this year. I'd rather ride my bike on a Sat tbh.

 

I get that, so more ethical versus the challenge, or the hunt. Maybe not quite ethical towards life and death. 

 

Years ago if you gave me camo and a hunting bow I would have been in the bush for days and days too, but I guess our perspectives change sometimes.

[Skubarra]

That was 3 years ago.. And this thread was supposed to have a simple answer to "does hunting contribute to conservation?"

 

Don't get what you are trying to achieve with this thread - you start of with a long essay on why you are convinced hunting is great and now you try to phrase it as a question weather hunting contribute to conservation when its already crystal clear on where you stand on this?

 

The whole hunting contribute to conservation is a paradox, it is because of hunting that conservation is needed in the first place. Now you want applause that money generated by hunting helps conservation. Well if the money don't go to conservation then hunters will just shoot out animals to extinction.

 

Obviously there needs to be some balance found wrt hunting and money from hunting helps to achieve that, but I think to applaud hunting as a savior for the conservation of animals is intellectually dishonest.

[Carmichael]

I hunt 2ice a year and love it. It is a friends family mens weekend but my daughter already told me she is going with next year. I hunt to eat. The buck is what supplies me of meat for the whole year. This year I shot 6 springbuck , blesbok and blouwildebeest. I have fillets, steaks, rugstring, sosatie, kaaswors, braaiwors, mince patties and bones for potjiekos. I don't have to buy meat again, except for the lamb for tjoppies. Been hunting for 30 years now.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Carmichael

[Kranswurm]

You can get far closer to a prey animal on a vehicle. It doesn't give the animal a chance. I don't shoot further than 50m, and will take most at between 15 and 20m.

The whole ethics is about giving your prey a chance. I'll spend an afternoon stalking a single animal. I put more value on the experience the harder it is.

 

That sounds like I like hunting. I'm not mad about it, but i love venison, and so do my extended family, so I get pestered from May for biltong. They didn't get any this year. I'd rather ride my bike on a Sat tbh.

Surely the objective should be to not give the animal a chance.The intention is to shoot it.Why make a game of it

Cant agree 

[kosmonooit]

Anyone else up to speed with the feral hog problem in the good ole US of A?

 

They are a hybrid between domestic pigs brought across the pond by the Conquistadors and Wild Boars brought in from Europe for hunting, And they are breeding off the scale  with no natural predators, displacing wildlife, carrying diseases and ruining crops so there is an open season on them and a million YouTube videos of gun lovers using their latest toys in feeble attempts to annihilate  them. That is if you can call a semi automatic assault rifle with night vision a toy.

 

What becomes obvious is how so many of them gun lovers enjoy the wholesale killing, which is quite disturbing to me. Often they will silt a sow open to see how many buns were in the oven.

 

The only effective method of control is to professionally trap and cull the whole sounder, which some vets make a living out of.

[kosmonooit]

Think I will go watch "The Deer Hunter" again  .. great hunting scene there.