The Veganism Thread

[Patchelicious]

By that logic, we should be eating our dead too. 

 

"Kom, kinders! Ons eet ouma tjoppies vanaand!". Would be a much better use of resources. 

Currently our dead feeds your food....

[Odinson]

I'm really curious as to people's opinions on the well-being of abattoir employees. 

 

Do you just accept it as the way it is, a necessary evil? Or is the research also just vegan fake news propaganda? 

[Odinson]

Currently our dead feeds your food....

 

You buried oupa in a corn field? 

[Patchelicious]

You buried oupa in a corn field? 

No, but you will find your mielies tasting a little bit like Nicky though...

 

http://vegasseven.com/files/2015/10/casino_still_cornfield_scene_WEB.jpg?x52918

Edited November 30, 2018 by Patchelicious

[GrahamS2]

I'm really curious as to people's opinions on the well-being of abattoir employees. 

 

Do you just accept it as the way it is, a necessary evil? Or is the research also just vegan fake news propaganda? 

Have you compared it to studies of employees in, for example, the steel industry? Or sugar industry? Or mining industry?My guess is that the results will not be all that different. My guess is also that no-one has done such in-depth studies on those industries because it doesn't support their argument...

 

When you take the emotion out of it, it's just a hard place to work: messy, noisy, smelly, and very physical. There are many workplaces like this, and they will all have a negative psychological and physiological effect on certain employees. Particularly when they're being paid a pittance. 

[Odinson]

Have you compared it to studies of employees in, for example, the steel industry? Or sugar industry? Or mining industry?My guess is that the results will not be all that different. My guess is also that no-one has done such in-depth studies on those industries because it doesn't support their argument...

 

When you take the emotion out of it, it's just a hard place to work: messy, noisy, smelly, and very physical. There are many workplaces like this, and they will all have a negative psychological and physiological effect on certain employees. Particularly when they're being paid a pittance. 

 

I'm not disputing that. There's plenty of *** jobs out there, done by the people that have no other option. 

 

However, it's difficult for me to avoid technology, in protest against the working conditions of some miners of rare minerals. It's much easier to not support animal agriculture and at least make some little effort in that regard. 

 

Imagine your clothes were labelled "certified sweat shop". Would you still buy it in good conscience? Especially if you had readily available alternatives. 

 

Capitalism has made a very imperfect system, where we collectively exploit humans and non-humans alike. To me, it's all about deciding what you want to support, as far as reasonable and practicable.  

[Escapee..]

I did ask about the person doing the stunning.

 

Its usually an older more responsible person doing the work. They use a pneumatic stunner and person also goes for intensive training.

 

I feel for the Halaal oke though that has to do the slitting of the throats, I think they definitely have it worse.

[Patchelicious]

I'm not disputing that. There's plenty of *** jobs out there, done by the people that have no other option. 

 

However, it's difficult for me to avoid technology, in protest against the working conditions of some miners of rare minerals. It's much easier to not support animal agriculture and at least make some little effort in that regard. 

 

Imagine your clothes were labelled "certified sweat shop". Would you still buy it in good conscience? Especially if you had readily available alternatives. 

 

Capitalism has made a very imperfect system, where we collectively exploit humans and non-humans alike. To me, it's all about deciding what you want to support, as far as reasonable and practicable.  

 

Few things are perfect. However what capitalism has done in improved live as a species for humans tremendously in a relatively short space of of time. 

 

[stefmeister]

Maybe, but I need to get elaborate to make a point about eating dead cows that might go to waste.

 

Ultimately, even if vegan conversions is slower than breeding rates, we will one day end up with many redundant species of animals that were bread purely for farming and will likely not survive otherwise. Its a sad thought. Not a reason to not go vegan of course, the extinction of a animal breeds is a small sacrifrice to make for the greater good, but is a sad thought.

They serve no ecological purpose, hence they'll not be missed and would be of no loss to nature.

[Odinson]

Few things are perfect. However what capitalism has done in improved live as a species for humans tremendously in a relatively short space of of time. 

 

 

100%, but also at great cost. For most of developed human history, most people lived as paupers. Human prosperity, depending on what metric you use, is higher than it has ever been. 

 

A good question was asked by Yuval Harari. Despite all of this prosperity and all that we collectively have at our disposal (healthcare, education, food, etc.) are we truly happier, on average, than hunter-gatherers? 

[I FLY]

I'll PM you my email address. Then we can set this up. 

I worked in the meat industry for a few years. Although I was in a head office financial role I made a point of visiting all our abbatoirs and feedlots regularly around the country.

It was not for the faint hearted or those with weak stomachs.

Many of my head office collegues never went on site.

[Patchelicious]

100%, but also at great cost. For most of developed human history, most people lived as paupers. Human prosperity, depending on what metric you use, is higher than it has ever been. 

 

A good question was asked by Yuval Harari. Despite all of this prosperity and all that we collectively have at our disposal (healthcare, education, food, etc.) are we truly happier, on average, than hunter-gatherers?

Of course it was at great cost, however it seems to be worth it, especially for those who are no longer living in extreme  poverty.

 

Im pretty sure those who are no longer living in extreme poverty would say yes, they are happier now.

 

Would you rather be alive today or in 1200AD? (they have great vegan alternatives)

Edited November 30, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Grease_Monkey]

Have you compared it to studies of employees in, for example, the steel industry? Or sugar industry? Or mining industry?My guess is that the results will not be all that different. My guess is also that no-one has done such in-depth studies on those industries because it doesn't support their argument...

 

When you take the emotion out of it, it's just a hard place to work: messy, noisy, smelly, and very physical. There are many workplaces like this, and they will all have a negative psychological and physiological effect on certain employees. Particularly when they're being paid a pittance.

Just my opinion, no science here - but I would imagine the psychological effect can be quite bad.

 

I like hunting, I don't mind killing something to eat it - but I would not want to kill animals all day every day, as much as I think it's necessary, it must still be hard to watch them die in front of you/by your hand.

[Patchelicious]

Just my opinion, no science here - but I would imagine the psychological effect can be quite bad.

 

I like hunting, I don't mind killing something to eat it - but I would not want to kill animals all day every day, as much as I think it's necessary, it must still be hard to watch them die in front of you/by your hand.

 

They should employ trophy hunters, they seem to get semis from killing for the sake of it.

[Paddaman]

Of course it was at great cost, however it seems to be worth it, especially for those who are no longer living in extreme  poverty.

 

Im pretty sure those who are no longer living in extreme poverty would say yes, they are happier now.

 

Would you rather be alive today or in 1200AD? (they have great vegan alternatives)

I love the wonderful circular arguments of those of the "progressive" persuasion.  According to them we are living in the worst possible times (to quote Charles Dickens) and most of them, despite serious differences in their "causes" (socialist, race, feminism, veganism ext) all seem to agree that it is "capitalism's" fault.  But when a classic liberal or capitalist points to the successes of free market and capitalism, such as production, life expectancy, roads, (to paraphrase "life of Brian":) then the goalposts move to "but we were healthier, happier and better" as cavemen eating roots and killing one another.  Sorry this is where Steve Pinker, Niall Ferguson and Thomas Hobbes agrees, life was short and brutish, and the establishment  of the state and free market was a brilliant idea and has done an awesome job of making life better, and even saving the planet.

[Paddaman]

Just my opinion, no science here - but I would imagine the psychological effect can be quite bad.

 

I like hunting, I don't mind killing something to eat it - but I would not want to kill animals all day every day, as much as I think it's necessary, it must still be hard to watch them die in front of you/by your hand.

I do not like eating chocolate all day, every day, either