The Ouzo Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 It's Matt's site. Think he is our maker here. If he finds untoward then he has the authority to close it down. Unless you are a major shareholder then the decision is his. But we are all allowed our own opinions. Unfortunately that is the second thread we have lost due to someones stupidity.We all have power problems because of one guy. But hey what we gonna do about that.. look I'm here for the cycling content, and will probably continue being a member here because of that cycling content, I'm merrily voicing my opinion and hoping that Matt takes mind of some of it for future issues arising.Thread deletion is a slippery slope. There are a few threads where site sponsors are spoken badly about, what happens when those sponsors complain about bad publicity, will those threads start getting deleted ?
Matt Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 The comment in question was one of many similar or worse comments from a number of users in the few pages we sampled. The issue was not these comments in isolation, but rather the nature and theme of the entire thread. It was a problem from the get go. Our mistake was not in mismanaging moderation of the thread, it was allowing the thread to exist at all. Allrounder, Sydd, DawieO and 9 others 12
Robbie Stewart Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 The problem lies in the responses to those posts / pictures. There's no blame that can be apportioned to the poster of those pics. The blame for the response lies squarely at the feet of those who respond in a sinister / sexist / crass / offensive manner. One should not have to worry about creepers sliding into DM's or commenting on their pics in a lewd / unsavoury manner, or calling them a "dog". As for why one would want to. Why the hell not? It's up to the person themselves to decide what to post. They cannot be held responsible for the reaction that a few socially inept people have when they see pics. Regardless of the state of dress. As for why people post pics of themselves online... for some it's a revenue stream, for others it's a contractual obligation (in terms of sponsor airtime etc) for others it's a way to receive positive affirmation. There are other reasons as well, but no reason warrants a response such as the one highlighted. I agree. No matter what one person decides to do, it never warrants another person's lewd, offensive and crass comment. I am just asking that knowing that that is how most guys default, what benefit is there in exposing yourself to such comments. Again, I am not implying that she is wrong. I am only wondering about the wisdom in such a move. I would rather not expose myself, hence my aversion in general to Social Media. I do not partake, other than here on Le BikeHub.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 I agree. No matter what one person decides to do, it never warrants another person's lewd, offensive and crass comment. I am just asking that knowing that that is how most guys default, what benefit is there in exposing yourself to such comments. Again, I am not implying that she is wrong. I am only wondering about the wisdom in such a move. I would rather not expose myself, hence my aversion in general to Social Media. I do not partake, other than here on Le BikeHub.Because letting that potential negativity affect you / prevent you from posting what you want to post is not a lekker way to live life. People should be able to post pics of themselves without fear of *** like that. That some people do behave badly is not a reason not to do it. It's also VERY much like victim blaming.... "they know they'll get that response, so why do they do x / y / z". The solution? Just behave properly. Danger Dassie, Skubarra and Robbie Stewart 3
Kalahari Vegmot Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Well why exactly MY post got deleted is..uhm......interesting...... Long Wheel Base 1
Long Wheel Base Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Well why exactly MY post got deleted is..uhm......interesting......Not just your post was deleted. Weird. Kalahari Vegmot 1
The Ouzo Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Well there is a difference between Fact and Sexism. One is tolerated the other is not.sexism is not tolerated a) because its wrong, but b) because there is a certain image to uphold, if you are not attractive to sponsors they will walk away. This site will then die. but same can be said about non favourable facts about a site sponsor. if the site sponsors dont like being called out about things they can threaten to pull out.
Plentipotential Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 The problem lies in the responses to those posts / pictures. There's no blame that can be apportioned to the poster of those pics. The blame for the response lies squarely at the feet of those who respond in a sinister / sexist / crass / offensive manner. One should not have to worry about creepers sliding into DM's or commenting on their pics in a lewd / unsavoury manner, or calling them a "dog". I would agree that those sort of comments are uncalled for. As for why one would want to. Why the hell not? It's up to the person themselves to decide what to post. They cannot be held responsible for the reaction that a few socially inept people have when they see pics. Regardless of the state of dress. As for why people post pics of themselves online... for some it's a revenue stream, for others it's a contractual obligation (in terms of sponsor airtime etc) for others it's a way to receive positive affirmation. There are other reasons as well, but no reason warrants a response such as the one highlighted. I suspect that the sexy bikini shots are to attract followers. This is used to attract sponsors. Perhaps it is even suggested by sponsors. It's a slippery slope, follow me on Instagram because you like the bikini shots which have nothing to do with cycling but every now and then I subject you to a shot of me wearing my sponsors sunglasses/clothing/riding their bike etc. Posting a pic of yourself online might be a contractual obligation, I doubt that a bikini shot is. It just attracts viewers. Why do men like it? Why do women do it? A question that has been asked from the beginning of time I guess. Maybe it's in our DNA. Long Wheel Base and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2
Jehosefat Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Before I start, I just want to say that I get why the admins deleted the thread and honestly it's a privately owned forum and they can choose what is and isn't acceptable content. That said, everyone who is advocating that there are things that people shouldn't be allowed to say are really on a slippery slope, freedom of expression is really the primary freedom that gives rise to all others. Sure it's not nice to say certain things but as soon as freedom of expression is curtailed to fit in to what "someone" thinks is an appropriate thing to say you can end up with all sorts of discrimination. Especially when it becomes unacceptable to voice dissenting opinions. Not that I agree with what was said but I do stand by a person's freedom to say it. i would also argue against anyone that suggests that the thread was"objectifying" women. Those women posted the pictures with the intent to "sell themselves" for sponsors / endorsements / fame etc. They objectified themselves the moment they made themselves the commodity that was being sold. As such, why should an opinion on that "commodity" be any more or less acceptable than an opinion on washing powder or anything else? But anyway, that's my rant over. Nothing specific against this particular action, just a general rant about the world at the moment. Edited January 13, 2020 by Jehosefat Long Wheel Base 1
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Before I start, I just want to say that I get why the admins deleted the thread and honestly it's a privately owned forum and they can choose what is and isn't acceptable content. That said, everyone who is advocating that there are things that people shouldn't be allowed to say are really on a slippery slope, freedom of expression is really the primary freedom that gives rise to all others. Sure it's not nice to say certain things but as soon as freedom of expression is curtailed to fit in to what "someone" thinks is an appropriate thing to say you can end up with all sorts of discrimination. Especially when it becomes unacceptable to voice dissenting opinions. Not that I agree with what was said but I do stand by a person's freedom to say it. i would also argue against anyone that suggests that the thread was"objectifying" women. Those women posted the pictures with the intent to "sell themselves" for sponsors / endorsements / fame etc. They objectified themselves the moment they made themselves the commodity that was being sold. As such, why should an opinion on that "commodity" be any more or less acceptable than an opinion on washing powder or anything else? But anyway, that's my rant over. Nothing specific against this particular action, just a general rant about the world at the moment.Freedom of expression isn't being curtailed though, and freedom of expression is also subject to its own limitations in terms of you being responsible for what you say, and accepting that others are fully within their rights to call you out on speech that isn't ayoba. Being a forum, they're fully within their rights to curtail opinions and posts should they be damaging to their brand or other people. That isn't considered to be censorship. It's only government legislation that can limit one's "freedom" of expression. Edited January 13, 2020 by Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Vetplant 1
Skubarra Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 That said, everyone who is advocating that there are things that people shouldn't be allowed to say are really on a slippery slope, freedom of expression is really the primary freedom that gives rise to all others. Sure it's not nice to say certain things but as soon as freedom of expression is curtailed to fit in to what "someone" thinks is an appropriate thing to say you can end up with all sorts of discrimination. Especially when it becomes unacceptable to voice dissenting opinions. Not that I agree with what was said but I do stand by a person's freedom to say it. I disagree, absolute freedom of expression is a pipe dream. It has never existed before, it will never exist in the future. I have no problem with the concept that there are limits to what we can say on here. Go to the cesspool that is Twitter if you want to say whatever you want (and even there are limits) sexism is not tolerated a) because its wrong, but b) because there is a certain image to uphold, if you are not attractive to sponsors they will walk away. This site will then die. but same can be said about non favourable facts about a site sponsor. if the site sponsors dont like being called out about things they can threaten to pull out. There is a big difference between crude & sexist posts and criticizing sponsors. I have been on the site for almost 10 years now and the moderators have always allowed valid criticism of cycling companies including sponsors, I don't see that changing Danger Dassie and Vetplant 2
TIB Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Well there is a difference between Fact and Sexism. One is tolerated the other is not. Very much like a well mannerd Blue Bull supporter and a Unicorn. One is a mythical creature and the other a horse with one horn... Robbie Stewart and gemmerbal 2
Jehosefat Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Freedom of expression isn't being curtailed though, and freedom of expression is also subject to its own limitations in terms of you being responsible for what you say, and accepting that others are fully within their rights to call you out on speech that isn't ayoba. Being a forum, they're fully within their rights to curtail opinions and posts should they be damaging to their brand or other people. That isn't considered to be censorship. It's only government legislation that can limit one's "freedom" of expression. Well removal of comments deemed unacceptable is by definition limitation of expression but that's besides the point, I was trying to acknowledge in my intro paragraph that this forum, being privately owned, has no obligation to allow anything that goes against it's terms and conditions. My post was a more general rant that this just kinda sparked. And yes, I never said that you should not be able to call out people who say things you don't agree with, that would be limiting your freedom of expression my point is that regardless of whether what they (or you) want to say will cause offense, they should be allowed to say it (again, in a general sense and not specifically here). I disagree, absolute freedom of expression is a pipe dream. It has never existed before, it will never exist in the future. I have no problem with the concept that there are limits to what we can say on here. Go to the cesspool that is Twitter if you want to say whatever you want (and even there are limits) Sure, even in the most liberal of constitutions there is a limitation on freedom of expression (usually around hate speech and incitement to violence) but in society as a whole freedom of speech should be protected as much as possible. And again, please see my first point in the post you quoted, I acknowledge that the forum has no obligation to allow discussions that are against it's terms and conditions. My post was a more general rant about people saying that it is not acceptable to comment on the pictures unless what you have to say is nice, but not sexual and also cannot objectify the subject of the photo. It was not directed at the removal of the thread nor was it directed at the admins or moderators of bikehub,
Kalahari Vegmot Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 As an aside, reading Puck's comments has me thinking she might of seen the thread..... Long Wheel Base 1
nathrix Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) As an aside, reading Puck's comments has me thinking she might of seen the thread..... FREE marketing, all the pro ladies will from now on keep an eye on/ follow Bikehub Edited January 13, 2020 by nathrix ® ©™ Kalahari Vegmot and Long Wheel Base 2
Duane_Bosch Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 There's an Afrikaans saying that springs to mind. As jy jouself uisit vir n toffie moenie kla as jy gekou word nie. Andymann, Long Wheel Base, Ed-Zulu and 2 others 5
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