So how much does the bike matter?

[Jewbacca]

Funny you should say this. My new Lynskey is the one. Might be a 2018 model but I like them a bit older. And this one was out of the box. 

Nothing quite like digging in the box of a slightly older model........

[Hairy]

Nothing quite like digging in the box of a slightly older model........

Especially if he is the first to dig into that box

[dasilvarsa]

It also depends where you live and ride.

In Cape Town it makes a Hellofadifference in Gauteng Not Really.

Edited February 11, 2020 by dasilvarsa

[DieselnDust]

Especially if he is the first to dig into that box

 

 

that is highly unlikely. Many may have tried but only one has bought doesn't = low mileage.

Shop demo's come to mind

[Hairy]

that is highly unlikely. Many may have tried but only one has bought doesn't = low mileage.

Shop demo's come to mind

Ah .. a shop demo, all the fun with no commitment and if something goes wrong it is someone else's problem

[Headshot]

Arguably, one of the greatest technicians in MTB, Fabian Barel, believes forward geometry marks the biggest improvement in bike frame design since sliced bread. Even bike skills runs out of room on a frame that's too short. Sam Hill and Brendan Fairclough both confirmed this when they insightfully noted that swinging off the back of a bike with a short rear-end feels fast, but the clock often says otherwise. Neko Mullaly has also echoed this sentiment recently.

In MTB, balance on the bike in the longitudinal direction (between the wheels) is key to performance when descending. Forward geometry has created alot more room for talented folks to express their skills, to the extent that forward geometry has found a place even in XCO, which started placing a higher emphasis on skill, not just fitness.

So i'd say, the bike still has a huge influence.

No arguing with the geo improvement, but I think the original PB poll was more about whether at the sharp end, the bike that say Nino is riding is the difference between him winning or losing. My feeling is that as most top XC bikes are pretty similar, if the riders swopped bikes with their rivals bikes of the correct size and set up, there would be little if any difference in race outcomes. The same can probably be said about DH or enduro bikes and racers. 

[Headshot]

On the road bike front, I am quite sure that a 6.5kg racer or 7.5kg aero bike will feel amazing compared to my ancient ali bike. That said, once up to speed and cruising in a bunch or descending, my heavier bike probably matters very little and could actually be nicer to ride.

 

My fastest ever CTCT ( 2h58) time was on a Hi tensile steel down tube shifting 12kg road bike that finished the race with a seriously wonky back wheel due to a poor wheel build. Haven't managed to come close to that since despite riding way lighter bikes. The reason, I have never trained like I did back then.  

 

There's a Bikeradar video where they took an eBike and a normal bike from Canyon - despite being a greasy tech descent, the heavy eBike was the fastest descender for both riders More stable and less knocked off line.  

[Hairy]

No arguing with the geo improvement, but I think the original PB poll was more about whether at the sharp end, the bike that say Nino is riding is the difference between him winning or losing. My feeling is that as most top XC bikes are pretty similar, if the riders swopped bikes with their rivals bikes of the correct size and set up, there would be little if any difference in race outcomes. The same can probably be said about DH or enduro bikes and racers. 

an ever so slightly more efficient suspension, more rigid handle bar and frame, wheels, etc could make the difference at the sharp end in a final sprint to the finish if both riders are at similar sprinter strengths. 

[Hairy]

incremental gains and all that.

[DieselnDust]

Don't DH and Enduro riders change bike size and fork travel for different courses?

 

those are pretty significant changes to warrant an argument for the bike making a difference.

 

I think at the XCO Elite level it doesn't matter so much. Maybe for the other disciplines there are more subtleties that need to be considered to achieve optimal performance?

[Capricorn]

Don't DH and Enduro riders change bike size and fork travel for different courses?

 

those are pretty significant changes to warrant an argument for the bike making a difference.

 

I think at the XCO Elite level it doesn't matter so much. Maybe for the other disciplines there are more subtleties that need to be considered to achieve optimal performance?

I could be wrong, but i dont see DH riders changing frames as often, but they do tinker with linkages to effect suspension kinematics. But that's about it. The only persons that come to mind when it comes to fairly substantial changes in frames is Minnaar and gwin. Ironically, in both cases, i don't think it's improved their results in any substantial way. 

[MORNE]

Nothing quite like digging in the box of a slightly older model........

 

[Leon O]

If you don't have the legs, you have achieved nothing, was what a buddy told me once on this same discussion of our bikes. Pretty much the same as ........................does size matter

[RocknRolla]

Ah .. a shop demo, all the fun with no commitment and if something goes wrong it is someone else's problem

 

 

are we still talking bicycles?

[Riaan H]

Bike makes a major difference - to a point.

 

Changing from a 15 kg entry level HT to a 13.5 kg DS made me much faster, and the comfort allowed me to ride much further, and survive many a poor line choice while I gained some technical abilities.

 

Changing from a 13.5 kg low to mid-level HT to a 11 odd kg XC DS made it possible for my wife to ride with me, and  I was able to do the same 40 km race with her bike in almost 20 minutes faster than my own. 

 

But, while more capable bikes will flatter ability (or lack thereof) legs cannot be bought, and going from SLX to XT or XTR will make such a small difference that it's not really worth the potential seconds you will save.

 

Most riders don't use their equipment optimally. For example, at my last sprint triathlon I overtook quite a number of weaker riders on full-on TT bikes with my 9.85 kg road bike simply because I was a little stronger, but was myself overtaken by riders on old and basic road bikes pedaled by stronger legs. Running a TT bike myself would have saved seconds for sure, but it's not like I would have podiumed as a result.

 

Us Saffas seem obsessed with having the best, just ask a VW salesman how many Golf Gti's they sell versus lower end models, or check your local trail for the number of S-Works Epics versus the alloy version, while in the rest of the world the ratios are very different. 

[MrJacques]

Bike makes a major difference - to a point.

 

Changing from a 15 kg entry level HT to a 13.5 kg DS made me much faster, and the comfort allowed me to ride much further, and survive many a poor line choice while I gained some technical abilities.

 

Changing from a 13.5 kg low to mid-level HT to a 11 odd kg XC DS made it possible for my wife to ride with me, and  I was able to do the same 40 km race with her bike in almost 20 minutes faster than my own. 

 

But, while more capable bikes will flatter ability (or lack thereof) legs cannot be bought, and going from SLX to XT or XTR will make such a small difference that it's not really worth the potential seconds you will save.

 

Most riders don't use their equipment optimally. For example, at my last sprint triathlon I overtook quite a number of weaker riders on full-on TT bikes with my 9.85 kg road bike simply because I was a little stronger, but was myself overtaken by riders on old and basic road bikes pedaled by stronger legs. Running a TT bike myself would have saved seconds for sure, but it's not like I would have podiumed as a result.

 

Us Saffas seem obsessed with having the best, just ask a VW salesman how many Golf Gti's they sell versus lower end models, or check your local trail for the number of S-Works Epics versus the alloy version, while in the rest of the world the ratios are very different. 

 

It would seem that the bike matters less for road riding than off-road.