Is watt/power based training better than distance based training?

[Duane_Bosch]

Pretty much the same frequency as one would do an FTP test which is either never, once or monthly

I don't need to do an FTP test coz I know my mate's FTP and I'm about 20% stronger than him so my FTP is about 20% higher than his.

[DieselnDust]

I don't need to do an FTP test coz I know my mate's FTP and I'm about 20% stronger than him so my FTP is about 20% higher than his.

 

 

LOL 

[Schnavel]

Pretty much the same frequency as one would do an FTP test which is either never, once or monthly

 

Use intervals.icu - the estimate FTP function gives a very similar number to actual (or so I have found), so you never need to do an FTP test! 

 

Based on the training question from the OP, it's definitely worth training according to power and not distance. Make your hard sessions, very hard, and your easy sessions, very easy. 

[IceCreamMan]

I am signed up for a criterium series, starting in May this year... now, its absolutely freezing here in the UK, and WAY too much rain. I have my indoor trainer working over time, now my question is:

 

Is watt based training better than distance training? Especially in terms of Cat 3 criterium racing?

 

Thanks all.

 

Get some warm clothes and get out there. Not that cold. Warmest winter in years. 

[FootballingCyclist]

Quality over quantity.

 

Depends what you training for. In this case for Crits which has loads of sprinting out of corners and high speed, high watt efforts, I personally gained more out of a 1hr30min session with sprint intervals or Hill Repeats or Vo2Max Threshold efforts than I did out of a 4hr 120km ride.

Edited March 2, 2020 by FootballingCyclist

[BigDL]

Get some warm clothes and get out there. Not that cold. Warmest winter in years. 

4 weekends in a row with these ridiculous storms and another coming next weekend. ******* nonsense weather. I have been out and tried to dress for it, but the winds are what are causing the issues? Almost got blown in front of a bus yesterday, and I was on a cycle path

[shaper]

Your distance based training will be based on heart rate zones when doing a ride, so I doubt your plan is just ride your bike.

 

Therefore you should be asking the question of whether HR training verses Power training is better.

 

Both have their merits and if you follow the program and the structured workouts you will improve.

[cadenceblur]

If you're just training according to ho far you're riding without monitoring your Heart rate or RPE then anything is better.

Studies at the Sports Science Institute suggest that it doesn't matter whether you have a Heart rate, RPE or Power based training plan but that the biggest benefit comes from having a plan. They even gave HR based training a slight edge (which was surprising to me), 

interesting... What about the delay in HR response to training stimulus? Also, the fitter one gets, it takes a greater deal of effort to increase one's heart rate.

It's therefore very easy to over exert oneself I would think?

[lechatnoir]

Quality over quantity.

 

Depends what you training for. In this case for Crits which has loads of sprinting out of corners and high speed, high watt efforts, I personally gained more out of a 1hr30min session with sprint intervals or Hill Repeats or Vo2Max Threshold efforts than I did out of a 4hr 120km ride.

 

100% agree. but... not sure i'd like to go into a 120km event knowing I'd only ever done 90min IDT. Then again, I'd be kinda glum knowing I'd only ever done 120km LSD rides if I was heading for a crit race.

Edited March 2, 2020 by lechatnoir

[Jehosefat]

interesting... What about the delay in HR response to training stimulus? Also, the fitter one gets, it takes a greater deal of effort to increase one's heart rate.

It's therefore very easy to over exert oneself I would think?

But the fitter one gets the higher one's FTP so the greater the effort to reach the same intensity. Same argument as heart rate.

 

The only bit that I would agree with is the delay in HR response (probably why training with HR to the same "intensity" is shown to have better results. I would guess that people overshoot the required intensity trying to get the heart rate up to the required level and are therefore actually training harder, hence the better results)

[mecheng89]

Power vs HR will be point of discussion for many years to come. You don't need power training to get better, but it sure helps. It's all about quantifying your training.

 

I want to achieve X, and need to follow plan A to get to X by time Y. Power training is the only way to get you there (for the amateur with limited funds). 

 

Get your hands on https://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Worlds-Comprehensive/dp/1937715825, then all will become clear. 

[mecheng89]

But the fitter one gets the higher one's FTP so the greater the effort to reach the same intensity. Same argument as heart rate.

 

The only bit that I would agree with is the delay in HR response (probably why training with HR to the same "intensity" is shown to have better results. I would guess that people overshoot the required intensity trying to get the heart rate up to the required level and are therefore actually training harder, hence the better results)

I think people need to see beyond the FTP number. For a crit race, no one gives 2 rat's about that number, but what is your 1 minute max? 5 minute max?

 

FTP means jack in a crit race. Horses for courses - are you gunning for IM glory? Get your FTP up. Crit race? 1 minute to 5 minute max needs serious work, else you'll get dropped, lapped and DQ'd. 

 

Sufferfest is good in this regard where it guides you through their 4DP protocol, and you can see where you are in several aspects, and not stare yourself blind into a number, that even after all these years has no concise definition. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by mecheng89

[RocknRolla]

I think people need to see beyond the FTP number. For a crit race, no one gives 2 rat's about that number, but what is your 1 minute max? 5 minute max?

 

FTP means jack in a crit race. Horses for courses - are you gunning for IM glory? Get your FTP up. Crit race? 1 minute to 5 minute max needs serious work, else you'll get dropped, lapped and DQ'd. 

 

Sufferfest is good in this regard where it guides you through their 4DP protocol, and you can see where you are in several aspects, and not stare yourself blind into a number, that even after all these years has no concise definition. 

 

You are correct, not only in crit racing.

 

The FTP is purely a baseline value to determine load for power based training. 

Thus the arguments for and against the different types of FTP tests and their accuracy. 

 

However, using a power based program specifically designed for preparing for the intensities of a crit race, using a baseline FTP value will be beneficial.

[JanJan]

I think people need to see beyond the FTP number. For a crit race, no one gives 2 rat's about that number, but what is your 1 minute max? 5 minute max?

 

FTP means jack in a crit race. Horses for courses - are you gunning for IM glory? Get your FTP up. Crit race? 1 minute to 5 minute max needs serious work, else you'll get dropped, lapped and DQ'd. 

 

Sufferfest is good in this regard where it guides you through their 4DP protocol, and you can see where you are in several aspects, and not stare yourself blind into a number, that even after all these years has no concise definition. 

 

I asked Jeroen Swart this during the "Power training" articles a few years back when training remains HR based for Pro's. Unfortunately I didn't get the answer I was looking for.

 

I am sure at a certain point elite and pro cyclist reach their maximum fitness according to their heart rates and only their rest and general health influence their HR based metrics.

 

Except the obvious 'skills and handling factor', how will someone differentiate their HR based training from Nino Schurter if they both perform a 20 min session @ 90% Max HR? I feel power becomes the metric to use. 

 

So realistically, no matter how much skills, bike-handling and even luck plays part, your 20 min and 3 min FTP will define your position in a race.

[DieselnDust]

But the fitter one gets the higher one's FTP so the greater the effort to reach the same intensity. Same argument as heart rate.

 

The only bit that I would agree with is the delay in HR response (probably why training with HR to the same "intensity" is shown to have better results. I would guess that people overshoot the required intensity trying to get the heart rate up to the required level and are therefore actually training harder, hence the better results)

Spot on. That's what the study suggested

[Duane_Bosch]

I think for us regular people who don't have astounding potential and massive watts per kg values the true value from doing a program comes from doing a program.

 

Whether it's HR or power based is academic in my opinion. The best workout is the one you actually do.

 

On that note Cape Epic Workout #3 is calling.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Duane_Bosch