DT SWISS Africa: Tech Q&A

[MarcHD]

Hello everyone,

 

Can't believe last month has been two years since this thread was started, thank you all for the feedback, questions, kind words and support - we really appreciate you allowing us the opportunity to improve our service!

 

We would like to update this thread more regularly going forward, but to start we thought we would cover the basics again for those who are interested.

One of the oldest questions we keep getting almost daily: "is this a DT Swiss hub" so today we thought we would cover the 3pawl model of hubs as these are by far the most confusing for end user and store mechanic alike.

Why? Because DT Swiss being one of, if not the most prolific OEM wheel and hub producer in the world, frequently for brands using their own brand name on the exterior (Bontrager, Roval, Syncros et al) this isn't as simple as reading the label!

furthermore, as pawls are by far the most common forward drive system for all makes and models of rear hubs/wheels it is the easiest to confuse - especially when they look near identical to one another!

Below is our super simple four step method for determining whether your hub is indeed using DT Swiss 3pawl internals and whether our DT Swiss spares and/or upgrade kits would be compatible:

 

The following are a list of hubs and wheelsets in which the DT Swiss 3-pawl system can be found:

• Pre 2022 model year 370 hubs
• Pre 2022 model year 1900 series wheels
• Pre 2022 model year 1800 series wheels
• Certain OE models of wheels such as Syncros and Giant*

 

How to identify DT Swiss 3-pawl Hub Internals
(In order of importance):
 

• End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time. 
• Freehub’s interface has a single grub screw to retain spring (arrow in image below) There is no DT Swiss 3pawl hub, OE or otherwise which does not have this screw. 
• Freehub’s interface has a short serial number/code (circled in image below) While known to have exceptions. It is almost without fail that DT 3pawl hubs have this code and serves as further evidence should it be required. 
• Pawl Carrier OD: Measure the outer diameter of the "face" of pawl carrier, this should be 27mm across 
  
  *Edit: Some brands such as Giant have started using 3-pawl technology in their current wheels that looks identical to DT Swiss, however the pawl carrier face is slightly wider in diameter, further confusing things given the brands long history of using DT Swiss internals!
  See point 4 above for how to be sure

 

That's it! 

Should you find the above to be true, you would know with certainty you are looking at DT Swiss hub internals!  

 

DT Swiss SA out

Edited December 15, 2022 by MarcHD
New info coming to light

[Carbon_Kooi]

Hi, I need the end caps to convert a 142x12 DT Swiss Shimano HG rear hub to 135QR, would you be able to point me in a direction to someone that might have stock? 

[MarcHD]

4 minutes ago, Carbon_Kooi said:

Hi, I need the end caps to convert a 142x12 DT Swiss Shimano HG rear hub to 135QR, would you be able to point me in a direction to someone that might have stock? 

Hi there,

 

Thanks for reaching out. I think perhaps a store was already looking for this on your behalf as we had this request earlier today?

 

We have replacements due to be delivered in the next day or so, but if it's urgent we also have the separate drive and non drive side end caps which we can pair together to form the set you would require.

 

Is there a bicycle dealer in your area who you would like me to reach out to in order to get you sorted out?

 

Prices will vary from store to store, but you can expect them to retail for no more than R850 incl. 

 

[Carbon_Kooi]

6 minutes ago, MarcHD said:

Hi there,

 

Thanks for reaching out. I think perhaps a store was already looking for this on your behalf as we had this request earlier today?

 

We have replacements due to be delivered in the next day or so, but if it's urgent we also have the separate drive and non drive side end caps which we can pair together to form the set you would require.

 

Is there a bicycle dealer in your area who you would like me to reach out to in order to get you sorted out?

 

Prices will vary from store to store, but you can expect them to retail for no more than R850 incl. 

 

Thanks for the quick reply, I sent you a PM.

[Sid the Sloth]

I love this thread. Lekker customer support... 

[MarcHD]

Hey Hubber's

Another month has flown by and the changing seasons have swiftly shown themselves, races have been raced and loadshedding is still here!

As promised in our previous post, we would like to continue our educational series and today we wish to focus on a product that is probably the single most recognizable in the entire DT Swiss portfolio: 

 

The Star Ratchet system

 

This system is legendary among riders and mechanics alike thanks to it's incredible reliability, ease of maintenance and high performance.

This system works by having to two rings or "ratchets" which are gently pushed toward each other by a pair of light springs. These ratchets have opposing teeth which mate together when the rider pedals forward. Having all the teeth engage simultaneously spreads loads across a larger area and transfers power more efficiently and reliably as a result.

Given the propensity for being used by brands such as Roval, Giant, Syncros and Bontrager as the preferred hub internal drive system many years now, it's important to be able to identify these hubs so you can know what replacement parts you may require, how to go about servicing them and what upgrades you are able to perform.

 

The following are a list of hubs and wheelsets in which the Star Ratchet system can be found:

• 350 hubs
• 240s hubs (gloss shell)
• 1700 series wheels
• Pre 2021 model year 1501 wheels (alu rim)
• Pre 2020 model year 1200 wheels (240s hub)
• Pre 2020 model year 180 hubs (carbon shell)
• Certain OE models of wheels such as Roval, Syncros, Giant and Bontrager mentioned previously

 

How to identify DT Swiss Star Ratchet Hub Internals
(In order of importance):

• End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time. 
• Internals are made up of two unmistakable ratchet rings (arrow above) 
• Two conical (tapered) springs  Remember to face the wider ends away from the ratchets! 
• Freehub and end cap usually have their intended drivetrain laser etched on  

Hope this helps Hubbers, if you have have a Giant, Syncros, Bontrager or Roval wheelset and your internals do not look like the above, it could be your either are running the DT Swiss 3pawl internals, for which identification steps can be found in our previous post HERE or you are running one of the newer (or older!) types of internals

 

Look out for our future post in which we explain how to identify one of these internals from DT Swiss known as the Ratchet EXP system. 

 

Cheers!

Edited December 14, 2022 by MarcHD

[MarcHD]

Hey Hubbers'

Another month and it's time for another tech post!

This time we would like to cast an eye toward the past in order to look at what is now considered obsolete technology from the early days of DT Swiss hub manufacturing...

...Or is it really? When you consider we still get requests for spares to service these hubs when they were discontinued over a decade ago, that truly speaks volumes of the reliability of DT hubs! 

 

We're of course talking about the 2-pawl hubs

 

As the name suggests, this hub is characterized by it's distinctive 2-pawl forward drive system which uses a different arrangement to the previously discussed 3-pawl hubs.

This is the only hub in the DT Swiss range which requires cone wrenches to remove the end cap and only has a Shimano HG freehub option as these hubs were discontinued before SRAM XD was even introduced over a decade ago! 

 

 

How to identify DT Swiss 2-pawl Hub Internals
(In order of importance):

• End caps require cone wrench to remove  The only model of hub in the DT range that does
• Pawls are housed in a steel carrier (circled)
• Opposing teeth housed in the freehub  Not the hubshell like in almost all other pawl designs 
• Uses needle bearings (arrow)

 

As we still get requests for spares for these hubs, Get Stoked does try to carry what we can, however due to the ever decreasing demand for this hub we are slowly phasing these spares out.

If you are rolling on one of these hubs and you require spares please don't hesitate to reach out to your dealer or to Get Stoked as DT does also try their best to keep spares available still and we will always try our best to assist you!

 

Hope this helps Hubbers and may you all have a fantastic festive season! 

Edited December 15, 2022 by MarcHD

[christovdw]

On 9/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, MarcHD said:

Kicking things off, we would like to offer a very brief overview of the many riders out there who may be requiring assistance when it comes to DT Swiss parts or services.

 

As many of you may already know, DT Swiss is one of the most widely represented brands in the world due largely to it's use by many well known bike brand's as the source of things like hub internals, spokes, nipples or complete hubs and wheel sets. 

 

Some examples of brands which have used DT Swiss parts on their own brand of wheels, either in the past or still to the present day: (as of September 2020)

 

- Specialized's Roval wheels 

- Giant's own brand wheels 

- Scott's Syncros wheels

- Trek's Bontrager wheels

 

If you include brands which have at some point used, or continue to use non OEM DT parts (meaning a DT part you could purchase off the shelf) the list grows even bigger:

 

- Cannondale

- Santa Cruz

- Yeti

- KTM

- BMC

- Norco 

- Storck

- Commencal

- YT

- Ibis

- Rocky Mountain

- Pivot

- Niner

- Ellsworth

- Ridley

et al

 

If you are riding any model of bike, although usually from "mid tier" and up (R40k+ price range) from one of these brands, you are very likely rolling on some DT Swiss products.

 

It stands to reason we have done our best in researching our market well and do our best as a distributor to import as many of the applicable spares required for all of the aforementioned brands within reason.

Hi Guys,

Some background... My scott spark rc 900 comp 2020 has syncros silverton 2.5 wheels fitted with a standard HG/shimano freebody.  I would presume that the hubs are some form of DT Swiss (3 pawl) as per the post above.  The end caps however do not just pop off (as one can see in the dt swiss tutorials on youtube) - they require a 11mm hex to remove.  If I wanted to move to an XD drive, would the standard 3 pawl xd driver with through axel end cap (as sold by bike-addict or cyclelab) be sufficient?  Or is there a different solution to this?

Thanks!

Christo

[MarcHD]

14 hours ago, christovdw said:

Hi Guys,

Some background... My scott spark rc 900 comp 2020 has syncros silverton 2.5 wheels fitted with a standard HG/shimano freebody.  I would presume that the hubs are some form of DT Swiss (3 pawl) as per the post above.  The end caps however do not just pop off (as one can see in the dt swiss tutorials on youtube) - they require a 11mm hex to remove.  If I wanted to move to an XD drive, would the standard 3 pawl xd driver with through axel end cap (as sold by bike-addict or cyclelab) be sufficient?  Or is there a different solution to this?

Thanks!

Christo

Hi Christo,

Thanks for reaching out!

As mentioned in the above posts regarding DT Swiss: 

• "End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time."

I'm afraid what you have is definitely not DT Swiss internals, and you would need to contact the store who you purchased the bike from or contact Scott Bikes directly to find out what internals it uses

 

Hope this helps and good luck! 

[MarcHD]

Good morning Hubbers'

Shew, another year, another month, and Jan-u-worry is almost over already! 

First and foremost we would like to wish all of you a safe and successful year ahead. Times are tough and we hope you're all healthy and happy.

 

For our first post of the year we will continue with last year's theme of informing the audience about how to quickly and easily identify DT Swiss hub internals so as to know whether they are on the right track to sourcing the spares and/or tools required to service or upgrade these hub(s)

Today we are looking at the literal and spiritual successor to the Star Ratchet system:

 

The Ratchet EXP 

 

The Ratchet EXP represents the continuation of the same core ingredients that made that forward drive system so legendary, namely:  unrivalled reliability, performance and ease of maintenance.

Ratchet EXP internals are found in the following wheels and hubs

• 180 hubs (alu shell)
• 240 hubs (matte shell)
• 1100 series wheels - Post model year 2021 (180 hub)
• 1400 series wheels - Post model year 2021 (240 hub)
• 1200 series wheels - Post model year 2021 (180  hub)
• 1501 series wheels - Post model year 2022 (carbon rim)
• Certain OE models of wheels such as Roval and Syncros mentioned previously

 

 

How to identify DT Swiss Ratchet EXP Hub Internals
(In order of importance):

• End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time. 
• Internals are made up of two ratchet rings with matching teeth However, unlike the Star Ratchet system, one of the ratchets is threaded in the hubshell (arrow) 
• One cylindrical (non tapered) spring (1)  Requires red shim between spring and freehub
• Axle Spacer is an unmistakable anodized red (2) This spacer is 10.7mm in length and not 15.4mm like in the Star Ratchet system
• Freehub and end cap usually have their intended drivetrain laser etched on

Edited January 23, 2023 by MarcHD

[MarcHD]

Hey Hubber's

That time of the month again!

As you've come to expect, every month we are still doing educational posts around DT Swiss and products using DT Swiss designs.

This time we are covering a new system introduced to the market in 2022 which has superseded the 3-pawl hub internals as DT's most affordable forward drive system:

 

The Ratchet LN system

 

Internally, Ratchet LN uses the same mechanism as the well-known Ratchet System. The difference in the system lies in the seal placement. To ensure the convertibility of pawl hubs, the seal had to be fixed to the freehub body on Ratchet LN hubs. Hubs with the classic Ratchet System or Ratchet EXP have their sealing on the hub shell.

 

The following are a list of hubs and wheelsets in which the Ratchet LN system can be found.

Note that in each of these examples it is the current generation (2022 onward) being referred to

• 370 hubs
• 360 hubs
• 1900 series wheels
• 1800 series wheels
• Certain OE models of wheels such as Roval, mentioned previously

 

How to identify DT Swiss Ratchet LN Hub Internals
(In order of importance):

• End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time. 
• Internals are made up of two unmistakable ratchet rings
• Hub seal is located on freehub (arrow) 
• Freehub and end cap have "Ratchet LN" laser etched on  

Upgradeable from 3-pawl

Further to this, should you be running the 3-pawl system in your hub currently, you can upgrade to the new Ratchet LN system 

The Ratchet LN upgrade kit includes the threaded ring, ratchets with 18 teeth, spring, shim ring, spacer and the freehub body. It is available with a standard Shimano HG, SRAM XD and Shimano MICRO SPLINE freehub body. For conversion, the DT Swiss 3-pawl ring nut removal tool and the DT Swiss Ratchet ring nut removal tool is required.

Until next time hubbers!

Edited March 27, 2023 by MarcHD

[Pikey]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:40 AM, MarcHD said:

Hey Hubber's

That time of the month again!

As you've come to expect, every month we are still doing educational posts around DT Swiss and products using DT Swiss designs.

This time we are covering a new system introduced to the market in 2022 which has superseded the 3-pawl hub internals as DT's most affordable forward drive system:

 

The Ratchet LN system

 

Internally, Ratchet LN uses the same mechanism as the well-known Ratchet System. The difference in the system lies in the seal placement. To ensure the convertibility of pawl hubs, the seal had to be fixed to the freehub body on Ratchet LN hubs. Hubs with the classic Ratchet System or Ratchet EXP have their sealing on the hub shell.

 

The following are a list of hubs and wheelsets in which the Ratchet LN system can be found.

Note that in each of these examples it is the current generation (2022 onward) being referred to

• 370 hubs
• 360 hubs
• 1900 series wheels
• 1800 series wheels
• Certain OE models of wheels such as Roval, mentioned previously

 

How to identify DT Swiss Ratchet LN Hub Internals
(In order of importance):

• End caps removable by hand  No cone wrench required. If it doesn't come of by hand it's not DT Swiss. Period. Stop right here. Do not waste any more time. 
• Internals are made up of two unmistakable ratchet rings
• Hub seal is located on freehub (arrow) 
• Freehub and end cap have "Ratchet LN" laser etched on  

Upgradeable from 3-pawl

Further to this, should you be running the 3-pawl system in your hub currently, you can upgrade to the new Ratchet LN system 

The Ratchet LN upgrade kit includes the threaded ring, ratchets with 18 teeth, spring, shim ring, spacer and the freehub body. It is available with a standard Shimano HG, SRAM XD and Shimano MICRO SPLINE freehub body. For conversion, the DT Swiss 3-pawl ring nut removal tool and the DT Swiss Ratchet ring nut removal tool is required.

Until next time hubbers!

@MarcHD  have a question about a 2020 Giant defy with slr 1 carbon wheels . Would a dt Swiss 350 11 Speed Shimano freehub body fit on these wheels .

[MarcHD]

12 hours ago, Pikey said:

@MarcHD  have a question about a 2020 Giant defy with slr 1 carbon wheels . Would a dt Swiss 350 11 Speed Shimano freehub body fit on these wheels .

Hi there, 

Thanks for reaching out!

The SLR 1 wheels of this generation use the DT Swiss 360 (3pawl) internals so you have two available options here:

 

1. If you wish to stay on 3pawl internals we offer the 3pawl freehub (and matching end cap if you are changing drive trains) here:
https://getstokedonline.co.za/product/dt-swiss-shimano-11spd-road-freehub-for-3-pawl-hubs/

 

2. If you wish to upgrade your 3pawl internals to the Ratchet LN (same internals & drive system as the famous Star Ratchet from DT) you can find the upgrade kits here:
https://getstokedonline.co.za/product/dt-swiss-3pawl-to-ratchet-ln-upgrade-kit-alu-freehub/

 

Note: The latter will require both the lock ring tool for removal (of 3pawl ring) and the lock ring tool for assembly (of the Ratchet ring) - these we do sell separately or alternatively you can let us know what store you prefer to have do the upgrade for you and we can make sure they have the tools required. 

 

Hope this helps - please get in touch should you need further assistance:

[Kuys]

Hi Marc

What is the typical life expectancy of rear hub bearings? (yeah, how long is piece of string....)

Ive just had bearing failure on a OEM branded 370 hub after 1yr and about 200km (bike was used very little for very mellow riding). Bike shop from where I bought the bike just says sorry, this is normal wear and tear. I beg to disagree. The bearings on my own bike's 350 rear hub has over 14 000km and still going strong. 

[MarcHD]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:24 PM, Kuys said:

Hi Marc

What is the typical life expectancy of rear hub bearings? (yeah, how long is piece of string....)

Ive just had bearing failure on a OEM branded 370 hub after 1yr and about 200km (bike was used very little for very mellow riding). Bike shop from where I bought the bike just says sorry, this is normal wear and tear. I beg to disagree. The bearings on my own bike's 350 rear hub has over 14 000km and still going strong. 

Hi Kuys,

 

Apologies for taking a while to reply to you. I actually no longer work in the cycling industry since Feb and further to this Aero Agencies are now the new distributor for DT Swiss

All that aside though, bearings are a very tricky one as there are so many factors involved that dictate whether they last long or not.

In specific relation to your question: I must point out that the 370 hub is a more affordable hub compared to the rest of the range, in part due to having some costs saved by way of things like seals being less tight, bearings being of a lower tier / quality et al

This would explain why models like your 350 hubs or the 240 hubs are known to last 10,000km or more as they have very tight tolerances and better bearings with higher quality seals - all coming at a premium cost of course.

 

In short: I don't think it's impossible for bearings on a 370 to last a year and the best solution to avoid wear, premature or otherwise, is to upgrade to better quality bearings and to check the internals of your hub regularly.

 

I know this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, but of course DT Swiss are (from my experience) very understanding of customer's frustrations so if it happens again they would almost certainly come to the party for you.

 

Happy riding!

[Mongoose!]

Where can one buy of the "Special grease" to apply on the ratchet / rear hub.

Or can I just make my own with melted Lip ice; Vaseline and Flora margarine 😜