DT SWISS Africa: Tech Q&A

[MarcHD]

Thanks for this initiative, at least now I have "somewhere" to go if I have a DT Swiss related issue.  I have 350 straight-pull center lock hubs on my bike, very good quality, like them a lot.

 

It's our pleasure Theo.

 

Look forward to being of continued service to you and the rest of the community!

 

Solid hub choice by the way - I'm on 350 straightpull myself too, upgraded to 54T for faster engagement 

[madmarc]

Hi there and thanks for the opinion,

 

I suggest taking the time to go through the spares we do bring into SA and chatting to us directly about a solution if you have not found what you are looking for.

 

As someone with many years experience in the bike industry I can say without hesitation that you will struggle to find a distributor more willing to make a plan for it's community than us. 

 

Don't have the part you need? We will do our best to special order it. 

 

We are here to serve and will do so the best we can!

 

Regards, 

 

I'm talking about special tooling required to service your products not spares.

 

I get the whole importer / dealer sales channel but at least make your specialized tools and prices accessible to joe public

[MarcHD]

I'm talking about special tooling required to service your products not spares.

 

I get the whole importer / dealer sales channel but at least make your specialized tools and prices accessible to joe public

 

My apologies for being ambiguous.

 

We only sell workshop related products (tools and spares in other words) to our registered dealers.

 

This is with the understanding that a professional workshop can assist with fitting or repairing 

Edited September 23, 2020 by MarcHD

[Hairy]

Agreed

 

Then why should you and I pay a markup for anything?

 

That is something that MarkHD does not address

 

I think this "sole distributor" and only supplying bikeships is nonsense.

I can drive to a car dealer and order a new radiator and fit it to my car, nothing about 

"we can only sell to a reapirshop and you must collect there"

 

Yes supply the bikeshop, but why must I pay a markup when I can get it from the distributor.

Many a VW is made locally for example ... can you walk up to the factory, or national distribution centre to buy an engine part, or do they send you off to your nearest dealership?

[Hairy]

Ok everyone needs their cut.

However, when I go to VW and ask what radiator my cars takes, they look it and tell me and I pay

 

When I go the bike shop and ask what bearings my rear hub takes or even my rear suspension, I get 

"hmm we normally take them out and check"

 

So I dont mind paying VW for a mark up as I did not know what I need.

 

LBS I normally tell them the part number to order, and then they put on their markup and THAT is what is not cool

I honestly think your biggest problem is the poor LBS's you have been using.

[Hairy]

After reading through this thread.

 

@DT SWISS Africa, awesome move to open yourselves up to the public via a platform such as the Bike Hub.

 

I have a older DT hubed wheel in the garage that will become a wheel on a bike to be built for my youngster.

 

A freaking awesome DT hub on my Carbon Rovals doing duty on my Momsen STR SS Build.

 

Then a set of DT Swiss M 1900 splines on my YT.

 

Also had a DT Swiss hub or two on previous bikes, and they have all been super reliable.

[MarcHD]

After reading through this thread.

 

@DT SWISS Africa, awesome move to open yourselves up to the public via a platform such as the Bike Hub.

 

I have a older DT hubed wheel in the garage that will become a wheel on a bike to be built for my youngster.

 

A freaking awesome DT hub on my Carbon Rovals doing duty on my Momsen STR SS Build.

 

Then a set of DT Swiss M 1900 splines on my YT.

 

Also had a DT Swiss hub or two on previous bikes, and they have all been super reliable.

 

Our pleasure Hairy - thanks for the kind words.

 

Quite an impressive range of DT products you have there! 

[Kuys]

Hi Showtime,

 

As mentioned in my first post. You are on the B2B (dealer only) site which includes spares etc. and will need to be a registered dealer to login and see those prices.

 

For aftermarket upgrades direct to consumer you can visit our B2C: 

https://getstokedonline.co.za/product/dt-swiss-xm-421-29-25mm/

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Coming from the DT Swiss rep... 

[DJuice]

Snip I'd love to build a almost complete DT Swiss equipped bike maybe even on a Pivot platform.

With you on this.

Bike with DT Swiss wheels, suspension, dropper post.

 

Those limited edition hubs and spoke on the Canyon Lux keep me up at night.

 

Pivot...do like the "story and engineering" but aesthetically does nothing for me.

[thebob]

Running a DT 350 with a 54 tooth ratchet on the rear for more buzzzzzzzzzzzz. Marc has always been super helpful me out when I've needed anything DT related, most recently a set of torque caps last month.

 

However, the tool thing I disagree with completely. This close minded approach to having people not service and maintain their own gear is an antiquated and narrow minded approach to business. This is why the right to repair campaigns are starting up globally for all industries. The type of people who will want the specialized tools are the type who have good technical knowledge and have solid technical experience. There is nothing to be gained from trying to keep people from working on their own stuff.

[madmarc]

To put a bit more perspective on this Importer -> Dealer (LBS) -> Consumer question.

 

OEM brands almost always have an importer in various countries - The Importers agreement almost always has a condition that the importer is not allowed to sell direct to consumer. Why ? Well the importer does not have the geographical footprint to harness market volumes of the brand, they do not have the manpower to handle after sales service and retailing is just not their business. the business model of an importer is very different from a retailer business model, you cant be both. If you try be both one or the other will suffer at some point.

 

The problem with this business model is the OEM & Importer are too far away from their target market (consumer) and have to rely on retailer (LBS) for service levels & product availability. Well we all know the crappy service levels of most retailers - so the brand suffers as a result - they don't keep stock, staff are clueless on the brand and technically they not up to speed on the brand technology. So yes why should a consumer be forced to order through a retailer. Well the bulk of the importers turnover is from the retailer and if the importer starts retailing to the consumer he is effectively competing against his own customers.

 

TREK & Spez tried to change this with a certain amount of success by opening up their own concept stores - But in the background its still the same setup - There is an importer and a retailer in the margin chain, the service levels of the retailers are however better because they are focused on one brand, but the lack of choice like a LBS who is mulitbranded is the downside, and of course both these brands have a vast range to warrant a successful business model.

 

There is no silver bullet solution to satisfy both the retailers and consumers - and DT Swiss brand is just no big enough to go the concept store route, so they have to rely on retailers for the majority of their market, that small portion of business they lose direct to consumer is considered acceptable in the bigger picture.

 

What does need to change though, is the connection of Brand (Importer) to the consumer, especially those of us that repair & service products outside the norm of retailers. Which in my view is a bigger market than we think. As an importer i would be tapping into this market.

 

Starting a Q&A forum like this is a good start - Joe public can now at least communicate with people that know the product. Hopefully the importer is open to providing Joe public with tech advice, Ass & repair instructions as well as spare part manuals.

 

The next step is to give the consumer more choice by publishing your RRP and the ability to order direct online. This gives the importer complete control of the retail price and stops retailer pricing your products out of the market. So as a consumer i check your price against my retailer and if its more or less the same i'll get it from the retailer, if its completely out of line i'll order it online. Yes more work, more logistics, more admin for the importer - but you retaining the retail margin in return and you retaining a happy consumer = repeat business.

 

We started this in our industry - Our customers are paying the same price they would through a retailer but are far happier because they were able to order direct from importer. Kind of boggles the mind but it works and proves that generally consumers complaints are more about the retailer than the product.

[Quagga]

RRP is nother term that gets my blood pressure up

 

How is RRP not price fixing?

[madmarc]

Running a DT 350 with a 54 tooth ratchet on the rear for more buzzzzzzzzzzzz. Marc has always been super helpful me out when I've needed anything DT related, most recently a set of torque caps last month.

 

However, the tool thing I disagree with completely. This close minded approach to having people not service and maintain their own gear is an antiquated and narrow minded approach to business. This is why the right to repair campaigns are starting up globally for all industries. The type of people who will want the specialized tools are the type who have good technical knowledge and have solid technical experience. There is nothing to be gained from trying to keep people from working on their own stuff.

 

Absolutely correct.

 

Currently in USA there is a huge lawsuit going on between farmers and John Deere for the right to repair. It seems JD are going to be on the losing end here.

 

In Europe OEM's by law have to provide or make available all tech manuals, tech training, specialized tooling to any repair institute.

 

Of course its not for free and authorized dealers get dealer discounts and others get full list price but at least its accessible by them.

 

times are changing, time for OEM's and Importers to wake up.

[madmarc]

RRP is nother term that gets my blood pressure up

 

How is RRP not price fixing?

 

Price fixing is when there is collusion between competitors to keep prices high.

 

RRP's are set by an OEM and/or importer who has built in an acceptable margin chain to satisfy their network and the price that they believe their products should be benchmarked. This concept is not price fixing, It's more to protect the brand and the consumer in ensuring the retailer isn't ripping off the consumer and destroying the retail potential of the products. 

[DieselnDust]

With you on this.

Bike with DT Swiss wheels, suspension, dropper post.

 

Those limited edition hubs and spoke on the Canyon Lux keep me up at night.

 

Pivot...do like the "story and engineering" but aesthetically does nothing for me.

 

 

I have to admit that aesthetically the Mach 4SL does leave me divided but the Mach 429 TRail is awesome.

I'm more Mach 4SL though but its still an awesome machine. It looks fast therefore must be fast

[MarcHD]

To put a bit more perspective on this Importer -> Dealer (LBS) -> Consumer question.

 

OEM brands almost always have an importer in various countries - The Importers agreement almost always has a condition that the importer is not allowed to sell direct to consumer. Why ? Well the importer does not have the geographical footprint to harness market volumes of the brand, they do not have the manpower to handle after sales service and retailing is just not their business. the business model of an importer is very different from a retailer business model, you cant be both. If you try be both one or the other will suffer at some point.

 

The problem with this business model is the OEM & Importer are too far away from their target market (consumer) and have to rely on retailer (LBS) for service levels & product availability. Well we all know the crappy service levels of most retailers - so the brand suffers as a result - they don't keep stock, staff are clueless on the brand and technically they not up to speed on the brand technology. So yes why should a consumer be forced to order through a retailer. Well the bulk of the importers turnover is from the retailer and if the importer starts retailing to the consumer he is effectively competing against his own customers.

 

TREK & Spez tried to change this with a certain amount of success by opening up their own concept stores - But in the background its still the same setup - There is an importer and a retailer in the margin chain, the service levels of the retailers are however better because they are focused on one brand, but the lack of choice like a LBS who is mulitbranded is the downside, and of course both these brands have a vast range to warrant a successful business model.

 

There is no silver bullet solution to satisfy both the retailers and consumers - and DT Swiss brand is just no big enough to go the concept store route, so they have to rely on retailers for the majority of their market, that small portion of business they lose direct to consumer is considered acceptable in the bigger picture.

 

What does need to change though, is the connection of Brand (Importer) to the consumer, especially those of us that repair & service products outside the norm of retailers. Which in my view is a bigger market than we think. As an importer i would be tapping into this market.

 

Starting a Q&A forum like this is a good start - Joe public can now at least communicate with people that know the product. Hopefully the importer is open to providing Joe public with tech advice, Ass & repair instructions as well as spare part manuals.

 

The next step is to give the consumer more choice by publishing your RRP and the ability to order direct online. This gives the importer complete control of the retail price and stops retailer pricing your products out of the market. So as a consumer i check your price against my retailer and if its more or less the same i'll get it from the retailer, if its completely out of line i'll order it online. Yes more work, more logistics, more admin for the importer - but you retaining the retail margin in return and you retaining a happy consumer = repeat business.

 

We started this in our industry - Our customers are paying the same price they would through a retailer but are far happier because they were able to order direct from importer. Kind of boggles the mind but it works and proves that generally consumers complaints are more about the retailer than the product.

 

Yourself and Bob make some valid points, which we are quite familiar with.

 

If it wasn't obvious by now we do a lot of research as a distributor and this topic is no different.

 

To further on your points regarding right to repair, this movement has certainly been growing overseas, however it mostly stems from the unfair practice of brands like John Deere charging an absolute fortune to essentially reset a tractor (my in laws are farmers and joke about the "yuppie" farmers who use John Deere despite this practice)

 

The other main reason for right to repair gaining popularity in the EU and USA is the undue waste caused from consumers being forced into binning electronic products that could easily be repaired instead if the tech companies at fault were not greedily forcing end consumers to replace rather than repair.

 

We genuinely feel your point regarding disconnect between consumer and brand which is why one of our biggest plans going forward is the training of workshop and sales persons at a dealer level so as to ensure the end consumer receives the best possible service for a given brand.

 

In DT's case this is already being rolled out overseas and has been started here in SA as well.

The idea is to have a dealer network that is large enough to ensure a customer can travel to [almost] any given country, search "DT hub service" and immediately have dealers within an acceptable distance from their location with which to have their product serviced correctly. 

 

Right now, our way of getting this ball rolling in SA has been to offer hugely subsidized rates to our dealers on key service parts (ironically the exact tool mentioned in several posts) among others. All of these said parts have been carefully chosen based on the inventory turns data we have collected year on year (as mentioned in a previous post) as well as based off what the most popular brands in SA are and what the most popular models from those brands is, for example: Giant Anthem -> XCR 0 wheels -> Star Ratchet internals -> MUST have parts include best selling freehubs (Microspline and XD) = faster turn around times for servicing of Giant Anthem clients, more of the time.

 

In response to the following: "Starting a Q&A forum like this is a good start - Joe public can now at least communicate with people that know the product. Hopefully the importer is open to providing Joe public with tech advice, Ass & repair instructions as well as spare part manuals."

 

I did exactly this at 6:30am this morning for a fellow Hubber needing a tech document on a 2013 Scott Nude 2 shock. We also do our best to carry tech documents, not just for all of DT Swiss products, but documents for all the brands which use DT internals/parts on an OEM level (such as the aforementioned Giant example) 

 

This thread is first and foremost meant to be in order for us to serve our DT Swiss community by offering exactly all these things. Tech docs, assembly advice, directions on best practices etc.

 

We will be happy to answer questions such as the right to repair concept this thread seems to have primarily focused on for the time being.

 

Cheers