Can we have an honest conversation about suspension forks

[T_Boss]

Specifically entry level to sort of middle of the range suspension forks.

 

With companies like Titan making really smart componenentry choices to keep the prices of bikes in check, can we start to set the record straight, and maybe help first time buyers make more informed decisions.

 

Firstly, RockShox are the grand daddy of supspension forks on MTBs and have been around forever. They generally make a decent fork, but not always. Fox, similarly, has been around for a long time, and is a well known and respected brand.

 

Neither Rockshox, nor fox, are the best forks out there. When dropping silly money on a bike, there are other "boutique" brands that actually hold the title of being the top of line when it comes to suspension. (DVS, CANE CREEK, OHLINS etc), but I am getting off topic.

 

Back on topic..... if priced the same, one bike is not nescisarly better than the other because it has rockshox vs SR Suntours. Do you homework/research. The XCM is probably not a great fork, but its no better or worse than an entry level Rockshox 30, and a Suntour Raidon is actually a very good fork.

 

Manitous may not be well known known to the mainstream buyer in South Africa, but Manitou is owned by Hayes (and no one ever pulls their nose up over Hayes brakes), and actually make a pretty decent Product. 

 

Marzochi probably isnt worth brining up here, as I cant think of any entry or mid level MTBs currently bieng sold locally with Marzochi forks, but just FYI, they are owned by Fox, and they have always made very good products, especially in the heavy hitting freestyle and more gravity inclined segments.

 

All I am trying to say, is make sure you find our a little more before saying things like Bike A is a much better deal than Bike B, at the price, because it has RockShox forks.

 

Im sorry, but I would ride a bike with a set of Raidons on long before I take a Rockshox Judy or Recon - or anything coil sprung from RS.

 

Sorry for a bit of a rant. I am just tired of hearing car park or coffee shop (or hub) talk, and people just automatically assuming because its not RS it cant be as good. - Do homework, and look at the entire offering before deciding if a bike is good value or not. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by T_Boss

[BaGearA]

Rockshox*

 

Rockshox is mainly disposable components, bushes(can't be bought) and internals are hard to find and local distro doesn't bring them in. Their tech is also not nearly where it would be considering how big they are.

 

Fox is more expensive but every single spare is available and can be bought easily in this country with multiple people that are capable of installing.

 

Suntour should be massive considering how much they are likely making with their oem deals. Service and parts are very difficult tho with dragons

 

 

Ohlins, DVO and cane creek are only hardfulls but all their spares are available and serviceability isn't an issue but very very expensive.

 

 

Even with dogsh#t damping I rate the 30 above the xcm cause it's easier to adjust the spring for noobs that most likely don't care about damping anyway

 

 

Fox and rockshox will continue dominating and I don't see it changing any time soon.

 

Entry level is A crap Shute at best, Manitou are making some awesome products and there is enough info on the web for home mechs but the products are more difficult to find here than it should be.

 

Buy fox here if you want something that will give years upon years of service

[T_Boss]

Rockshox*

 

 

Fixed..... I knew it sounded wrong as I typed, and I was too lazy to walk to the garage to check

[CAAD4]

Reba the Camry of forks. The end.

[Showtime]

Marzochi probably isnt worth brining up here, as I cant think of any entry or mid level MTBs currently bieng sold locally with Marzochi forks, but just FYI, they are owned by Fox, and they have always made very good products, especially in the heavy hitting freestyle and more gravity inclined segments.

 

It's probably the name that is worth bringing up. You will find the Z2 on many bikes this year including the Titan Cypher Comp. It's based on the Fox 34 chassis with a simplified damper and it get's very good reviews.

[T_Boss]

Interesting,

 

I thought titan was going with Manitou Markhors on the Comp?

 

But if they have Z2s on, it makes the Titan an even better value for money offering that it already is

 

 

It's probably the name that is worth bringing up. You will find the Z2 on many bikes this year including the Titan Cypher Comp. It's based on the Fox 34 chassis with a simplified damper and it get's very good reviews.

Edited October 25, 2020 by T_Boss

[Showtime]

Interesting,

 

I thought titan was going with Manitou Markhors on the Comp?

 

But if they have Z2s on, it makes the Titan an even better value for money offering that it already is

The carbon comp.

[DieselnDust]

ROCKSHOX, Fox, Suntour they all use off the shelf bushes. They don't make bushes. Norglide is the industry standard.

 

As far as I know CCS carries most of the spares for any RS fork but RS has many more models than Fox and their forks are specced on many more bikes in the industry. Then each bike manufacturer will spec their own shim stacks to tune the fork and rear shock to work with their bike.

since there isn't many people in SA with suspension dynamometers to tune rear shocks and forks it becomes a huge undertaking to carry a spare damper assembly for every bike model sold in SA. The distributors carry the spares that they can see is in demand based on the sales and requests history.

Suntour just isn't specced on sufficient bikes in SA for Dragons to carry all the spares.

Manitou will suffer from the same problem.

The truth of the matter is that if you want to have a suspension unit that is going to last is to get it serviced regularly and and with genuine parts.

 

I also doubt the latest Fox forks allow for the bushings to be replaced anylonger. Getting them out often resulted in internal damage that gave rise to other problems like scratched stanchions when the fork was put back into use. Everyone replaces the lowers now. Tolerances are just too tight

[MORNE]

People say that? (Rockshox or nothing)? LOL.

 

Might only be my biased perception or opinion, but i dont consider RS at the same level as Fox nor some of the others mentioned. Some of those companies are highly successful specialist suspension design/builders across many disciplines outside of bicycles....and for decades. Others are the best people from these companies who went botique.

RS these days is brought to us by the same people that gave us rebranded avid brakes imo haha.

 

If I were to spend ~R20k on a proper new fork...i know exactly what and where i’ll be shopping, and RS is not even on that list...partly due to some of the reasons already mentioned by others regarding parts and servicing...and partly because I just dont consider them on par with some of the others. Also, owning a RS fork is like owning a vw golf...you will never have the latest one because tomorrow there will be s new one.

 

Disclaimer: IMO????

I’ll gladly ride one though, but only if i got it off here for cheaper or wanted a budget fork for a project.

Edited October 25, 2020 by morneS555

[MORNE]

Also...id rather ride a carbon rigid fork (which I do, and they cost roughly the same) before i ride one of those entry level boat anker forks that R20k ‘entry level’ bikes come with these days.

[Maaknplan]

My 2c having been around forks since their inception.
I always advise someone looking for a bike that the 2 most important things is the size of the frame and the quality of the fork.

I repair bikes and find the worst are the ones with chrome stanchions which rust pretty quickly which totally destroys the seals and bushed very quickly.

A shock with aluminium stanchions is much better in my opinion.

[DieselnDust]

People say that? (Rockshox or nothing)? LOL.

 

Might only be my biased perception or opinion, but i dont consider RS at the same level as Fox nor some of the others mentioned. Some of those companies are highly successful specialist suspension design/builders across many disciplines outside of bicycles....and for decades. Others are the best people from these companies who went botique.

RS these days is brought to us by the same people that gave us rebranded avid brakes imo haha.

 

If I were to spend ~R20k on a proper new fork...i know exactly what and where i’ll be shopping, and RS is not even on that list...partly due to some of the reasons already mentioned by others regarding parts and servicing...and partly because I just dont consider them on par with some of the others. Also, owning a RS fork is like owning a vw golf...you will never have the latest one because tomorrow there will be s new one.

 

Disclaimer: IMO

I’ll gladly ride one though, but only if i got it off here for cheaper or wanted a budget fork for a project.

 

 

 

The funny thing about all those boutique suspension units is they don't get the kind of reviews that RS and Fox get. Most people just want something simple to set up and go or a ride.

Boutique caters for a different market that is also a lot smaller - the people who know more of less what they want and know the difference between high and low speed compression damping and rebound damping. Most bikes leaving the showroom floor have the rebound set by the salesman for an unbroken on fork and then don't understand why a month later the bike feels more nervous....

 

I would have loved to see Trust Performance survive and continue to offer their linkage fork. 

If you want something different there's little difference between products in a category that can't be tuned out with a little oil viscosity tinkering and air spring volume adjustment.

 

On the budget end my daughters GT has a SR Suntour XCR 32 and its a pretty darn good fork for the money. The compression adjust works - you can feel the difference each click makes.

The rebound adjustment is sensitive enough to allow the fork to be tuned for a wide rider weight range.

But people see that it doesn't have a RS fork on it so they say no thanks because the guys n Bikehub said its crap.

Product perception is partly driven by the halo effect of the top end products. Peeps see a RS on a Spaz Epic so RS must be the best, yet the Mens XCO World Champ rides a SR Suntour...

[DieselnDust]

My 2c having been around forks since their inception.

I always advise someone looking for a bike that the 2 most important things is the size of the frame and the quality of the fork.

I repair bikes and find the worst are the ones with chrome stanchions which rust pretty quickly which totally destroys the seals and bushed very quickly.

A shock with aluminium stanchions is much better in my opinion.

 

 

and the chrome plating peels off pretty quickly...

[MORNE]

Snip.

Those Trust forks are/were drool-worthy cool! And going by the reviews they just started cracking that nut ito performance and feel. Pity

Edited October 25, 2020 by morneS555

[DieselnDust]

Those Trust forks are/were drool-worthy cool! And going by the reviews they just started cracking that nut ito performance and feel. Pity

 

 

Yeah huge shame that they had to close their doors. I hope they get start up capitol from the US gov but who knows? Lots of great products have gone the way of the dodo. Survival of the financially fit they say.

And therein lies the case for a RS or a Fox.

I own a RS-1 circa 2015 vintage. I can still get spares for it. Its still supported even though its hardly specced on an OEM bike anylonger. With forks like "The Message" you lay out a hell of a lot of cash for something different and 2 yrs later they're gone and you're stuck with a brilliant piece of engineering art hanging over the mantel while RS updates the Pike and Lyrik and theres a new and improved lighter stiffer more supple Fox 36 available...

The chances of keeping your fork or rear sus unit running for years is way higher with a RS or Fox.

[MrJacques]

I saw a Marzocchi Z2 on a Giant Stance the other day. https://www.giant-bicycles.com/za/trance-29-3

 

Some that haven't been mentioned:

 

X-Fusion: Not that popular, but they make some nice forks and shocks.

 

DVO: Higher end, pretty nice.