Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[NotSoBigBen]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I totally agree, swerving isn't always going to get you out of trouble.

The primary action that we all should learn is to assess the risks on a stretch of road and position yourself to minimise that risk.

You will always have a brownaye trying to show you who is boss by tail gating. This will never change until drivers actually get prosecuted for dangerous driving. he proecutions won't happen if people who have actual footage of this dangerous driving never submit it or lay charges. We're all just to apathetic to bother. Yes the system is coitused, mostly because of a failure to act againt taxi behaviour decades ago, but no our roads are a case of if-you-can't-beat-em-join-em and everyone just does as they please.

But back to swerving..... If a bus or truck pulled out of that side road would you have swerved?

Every situation should be discussed and judged on its on merit. 

*Consults Google for the meaning of some words* 🤪

[Headshot]

12 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I totally agree, swerving isn't always going to get you out of trouble.

The primary action that we all should learn is to assess the risks on a stretch of road and position yourself to minimise that risk.

You will always have a brownaye trying to show you who is boss by tail gating. This will never change until drivers actually get prosecuted for dangerous driving. he prosecutions won't happen if people who have actual footage of this dangerous driving never submit it or lay charges. We're all just to apathetic to bother. Yes the system is coitused, mostly because of a failure to act against taxi behaviour decades ago, but no our roads are a case of if-you-can't-beat-em-join-em and everyone just does as they please.

But back to swerving..... If a bus or truck pulled out of that side road would you have swerved?

Every situation should be discussed and judged on its own merit. 

In this case, I had no time to react at all, so if it was a bus, I'd have slammed into the side at 30km/h. I was just lucky, but it does illustrate that sometimes doing nothing can be the safest way out of trouble.

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, lenzman said:

I respectfully disagree.

This was the 2nd dooring incident on main road that I am aware of in the last couple of months.

The first one in December happened here and I was on scene with paramedics and the fire brigade.

Happened around 11h00 on Sunday, 1 December 2024

There has been a couple after that and there's one almost daily involved 60/60 delivery bikes and motorists pulling out of Span Str without looking for traffic other than conformation bias from other motorists that its safe to enter Main Rd. They then proceed to block the left hand side of the Main Rd with their cars parked diagonally into the road. 

[lenzman]

4 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I could measure the reaction time in milliseconds, not even seconds.

When I played rugby for my local club, I felt like a crusader. I had to run straight at the defending team expecting to get tackled and also to get across the advantage line.

Sometimes it felt like running into a door.

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, lenzman said:

I respectfully disagree.

This was the 2nd dooring incident on main road that I am aware of in the last couple of months.

The first one in December happened here and I was on scene with paramedics and the fire brigade.

Happened around 11h00 on Sunday, 1 December 2024

potayto potarto, the fact that there's a term for being "Doored" means it happens. There's a huge number of cyclists on the road everyday, passing close to parked cars all the time - most of the time without incident. So yes, you can name a few anecdotal incidents but it remains quite rare in the grand scheme of things.

[Shebeen]

On 2/28/2024 at 2:31 PM, Shebeen said:

assume he must just spend his salary on sixty60 deliveries while the case drags on

 

Navy spokesperson, Commander Theo Mabina, said Pasha was suspended with pay, pending the conclusion of the legal proceedings. 

"The next course of action will be determined only when all legal proceedings are completed," he added. 

the wheels of justice turn slowly. 

Here's an update from this case last week, well done to Wider of the Rider for following up.

https://www.facebook.com/cyclistsstayalive/posts/pfbid02EZhraq8a3hTQ2W9L1JoWCwUFtddhqpouoFRodkCpaoEL56oy3UZj6KWYxbs8ZGtdl?__cft__[0]=AZXM77X12G-7F2hLNVtJe5kMPycM3ihqRuYHnXJWBgk3fYhSN245micKDSCRyE4V4z0Rla7ofr5p6H0PcB3Y8wXF8ksUhdXFMK0c48q8Ft1GpEpuGzb_Z4KWPdAHQiso09HASlONoagWG4PUk5ti_qsLV77IML-aEM4bMeaiN2PiMQ&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Quote

Pasha's lawyer read an avidavit on behalf of the accused. According to his avidavit he was fighting fires the entire day prior to the crash and he decided to stay in Simon's Town that night after having a few drinks with friends. He decided to drive back at 4h30 the next morning to his girlfriend who needed the car for the day. According to him it was still dark and he did not have a clear view of the road. He felt he bumped something and stopped to inspect the vehicle and could not see what he hit and in shock he drove on to Fish Hoek where he fell asleep and was woken up by SAPS and arrested. His lawyer suggested correctional supervision for sentencing as he has no previous convictions. Pasha pleaded guilty to reckless driving and not stopping at the scene of a crash.

 

If you believe that then the Easter Bunny must still be a hoot. I saw the video, it would appear no blood tests were taken. 

 

[DieselnDust]

39 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

the wheels of justice turn slowly. 

Here's an update from this case last week, well done to Wider of the Rider for following up.

https://www.facebook.com/cyclistsstayalive/posts/pfbid02EZhraq8a3hTQ2W9L1JoWCwUFtddhqpouoFRodkCpaoEL56oy3UZj6KWYxbs8ZGtdl?__cft__[0]=AZXM77X12G-7F2hLNVtJe5kMPycM3ihqRuYHnXJWBgk3fYhSN245micKDSCRyE4V4z0Rla7ofr5p6H0PcB3Y8wXF8ksUhdXFMK0c48q8Ft1GpEpuGzb_Z4KWPdAHQiso09HASlONoagWG4PUk5ti_qsLV77IML-aEM4bMeaiN2PiMQ&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

 

If you believe that then the Easter Bunny must still be a hoot. I saw the video, it would appear no blood tests were taken. 

 

I don't know whether to laugh cry or carry a baseball bat to Simons Town.

Fighting fires ? What fires? Lawyer trying to make a hero out of scum.

CCTV camera shows there was enough light  and the sun was behind him, not in his face

[Shebeen]

16 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I don't know whether to laugh cry or carry a baseball bat to Simons Town.

Fighting fires ? What fires? Lawyer trying to make a hero out of scum.

CCTV camera shows there was enough light  and the sun was behind him, not in his face

carte blanche did a segment on it

 

 

[Milosh]

[NickGM]

14 minutes ago, Milosh said:

I agree with this sentiment, but for me there is a very important distinction between people riding because they are going to the shop/work/running errands/have no other option VS those riding for fun. One type of rider is replacing a car and deserves to be the highest priority on the road. As a driver I will never be irritated with this type of cyclist. But when somebody's hobby is making somebody else late for work, when I can very easily empathize with car drivers for hooting at people riding slowly and 2 abreast.

It may seem trivial but to me the distinction between whether a cyclist is replacing a car or not makes all the difference. One is taking away from the problem (congestion), the other is adding to it. 

The people in this cartoon have long pants on so will give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Milosh]

Just now, NickGM said:

I agree with this sentiment, but for me there is a very important distinction between people riding because they are going to the shop/work/running errands/have no other option VS those riding for fun. One type of rider is replacing a car and deserves to be the highest priority on the road. As a driver I will never be irritated with this type of cyclist. But when somebody's hobby is making somebody else late for work, when I can very easily empathize with car drivers for hooting at people riding slowly and 2 abreast.

It may seem trivial but to me the distinction between whether a cyclist is replacing a car or not makes all the difference. One is taking away from the problem (congestion), the other is adding to it. 

The people in this cartoon have long pants on so will give them the benefit of the doubt.

My take is there are two kinds of cyclists

1- Those that cycle to work and need a cycle path 

2- Those who pay tax, normally on the upper end, have cars and pay licenses, etc that have contributed to society and deserve something back  like a cycle path 

[The Ouzo]

2 minutes ago, NickGM said:

I agree with this sentiment, but for me there is a very important distinction between people riding because they are going to the shop/work/running errands/have no other option VS those riding for fun. One type of rider is replacing a car and deserves to be the highest priority on the road. As a driver I will never be irritated with this type of cyclist. But when somebody's hobby is making somebody else late for work, when I can very easily empathize with car drivers for hooting at people riding slowly and 2 abreast.

It may seem trivial but to me the distinction between whether a cyclist is replacing a car or not makes all the difference. One is taking away from the problem (congestion), the other is adding to it. 

The people in this cartoon have long pants on so will give them the benefit of the doubt.

so here's the thing though, how much later are you going to get to work because a group of cyclists inconvenienced you ? 

And this is not aimed specifically at you, its just that you happened to mention it. It is the type of logic that prevails on our roads, which is why we have aggression and impatient drivers.

change those cyclists to a slow moving car/truck/bus, does the motorist still feel that same ? most of the times not so much.

 

[NickGM]

Just now, The Ouzo said:

so here's the thing though, how much later are you going to get to work because a group of cyclists inconvenienced you ? 

And this is not aimed specifically at you, its just that you happened to mention it. It is the type of logic that prevails on our roads, which is why we have aggression and impatient drivers.

change those cyclists to a slow moving car/truck/bus, does the motorist still feel that same ? most of the times not so much.

 

yep, no worries.

As I see it: A slow moving car/truck/bus is almost certainly not there for their own amusement though. So again, their hobby is not making someone else late for work or dropping kids off at school. So you can understand why people don't get as angry. A bus also doesn't have the option to ride single file.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy social group rides and wish cyclist were given a bit more leeway. I'm just surprised that this part of the problem never features in the discussion. Heck I personally wish cars didn't even exist, but in the absence of decent public transport a lot of people here are locked into cars for essential travel.

[DieselnDust]

6 minutes ago, NickGM said:

I agree with this sentiment, but for me there is a very important distinction between people riding because they are going to the shop/work/running errands/have no other option VS those riding for fun. One type of rider is replacing a car and deserves to be the highest priority on the road. As a driver I will never be irritated with this type of cyclist. But when somebody's hobby is making somebody else late for work, when I can very easily empathize with car drivers for hooting at people riding slowly and 2 abreast.

It may seem trivial but to me the distinction between whether a cyclist is replacing a car or not makes all the difference. One is taking away from the problem (congestion), the other is adding to it. 

The people in this cartoon have long pants on so will give them the benefit of the doubt.

I hear what you're saying. I think its a dangerous slippery slope. It means you can condone lawlessness because mini bus taxi's are moving 20tyty people in the same amount of space as a Audi A4 that usually carries 1.

If you're a tax payer you have rights in the economy. 

If you are indigent, you have basic rights that intend to give you dignity + all the same rights of the tax payer

When you say one has more right to something than another than another by virtue of their needing it more or due to their economic status it starts to open the barn door of negative discrimination. A person using the road for health and recreation is not more, or less entitled to that road. The usage rights applies to everyone. The conditions of use applies to everyone, equally. Where we fall short in SA is that there is no hierarchy of vulnerability that protects vulnerable groups more than others. In fact the bigger you are in SA the more likely you are to get away with murder and that is a reality. 

[NickGM]

2 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I hear what you're saying. I think its a dangerous slippery slope. It means you can condone lawlessness because mini bus taxi's are moving 20tyty people in the same amount of space as a Audi A4 that usually carries 1.

If you're a tax payer you have rights in the economy. 

If you are indigent, you have basic rights that intend to give you dignity + all the same rights of the tax payer

When you say one has more right to something than another than another by virtue of their needing it more or due to their economic status it starts to open the barn door of negative discrimination. A person using the road for health and recreation is not more, or less entitled to that road. The usage rights applies to everyone. The conditions of use applies to everyone, equally. Where we fall short in SA is that there is no hierarchy of vulnerability that protects vulnerable groups more than others. In fact the bigger you are in SA the more likely you are to get away with murder and that is a reality. 

Valid - will take on board. 👍

[Shebeen]

31 minutes ago, NickGM said:

I agree with this sentiment, but for me there is a very important distinction between people riding because they are going to the shop/work/running errands/have no other option VS those riding for fun. One type of rider is replacing a car and deserves to be the highest priority on the road. As a driver I will never be irritated with this type of cyclist. But when somebody's hobby is making somebody else late for work, when I can very easily empathize with car drivers for hooting at people riding slowly and 2 abreast.

It may seem trivial but to me the distinction between whether a cyclist is replacing a car or not makes all the difference. One is taking away from the problem (congestion), the other is adding to it. 

The people in this cartoon have long pants on so will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Totally agree. I cycle around the neighbourhood doing errands too so often end up swapping turns with commuters while i'm in my plakkies. met an oke the other day who cycles masi2pinelands return every day. calves of steel.

The disconnect for me is that a RND number of cyclists are complete prick road users. So ALL cyclists are lumped in with this group. If we run the same thinking that a RND number of vehicle drivers are complete prick road users, why can't we lump all vehicle drivers into this group? Because, trust me, the high and might holier than thou vehicle drivers are either terrible vehicle drivers themselves or like to complain about them.