SRAM bring AXS wireless ecosystem to GX Eagle drivetrain

[Headshot]

Catch 22. If everyone buys from overseas then the parent companies close down the distributor network to the country. Yeah we score on price but when something breaks and you to deal with Viktr Cznkzsksstovic who doesn't speak a word of English then ooopss let me try the US distribution centre.

If the parent companies don't protect the supply chains they end up with much more complexity in managing the supply chain from factory to user themselves. That requires a lot more capitol and doesn't necessarily generate more capital. Everytime a manufacturer tries this it degrades into a crap shoot between warranty claims and end user.

 

We pay more in SA because we're a small market and we don't attract the bulk order discounts that larger markets like the USA and Europe attract. Stock allocated to our distributors sits on the shelves longer or it gets sold to markets with back orders to be fulfilled. Guess what, our distributors then have to wait for restocking.

Welcome to living and operating in Africa. Every industry in SA faces the same problem and that is exaggerated during these covid times

That may be true, but doesn't explain why SRAM parts are more expensive than Shimano - the brake pads I mentioned elsewhere. Brake rotors are another. The near identical 200/203mm rotor is around R200 more if its SRAM - Sorry, just checked - its R300 more and I got an old stock Shimano item for R400 less than the R895 the SRAM item costs. 

 

R10k for a set of decent, enduro/dh capable brakes i.e comparable to Shimano brakes that cost half to 2/3 of the price and are often on special? Someone is taking the piss. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Headshot

[Rock Guy]

That may be true, but doesn't explain why SRAM parts are more expensive than Shimano - the brake pads I mentioned elsewhere. Brake rotors are another. The near identical 200/203mm rotor is around R200 more if its SRAM. 

 

R10k for a set of decent, enduro/dh capable brakes i.e comparable to Shimano brakes that cost half to 2/3 of the price and are often on special? Someone is taking the piss. 

 

This is generally why SRAM brakes makes you faster on the descents. You simply cannot afford to use the brakes as often as the Shimano folk. Nothing to do with modulation as the internet would lead you to believe. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Rock Guy

[Jbr]

This is generally why SRAM brakes makes you faster on the descents. You simply cannot afford to use the brakes as often as the Shimano folk. Nothing to do with modulation as the internet would lead you to believe. 

   

[DieselnDust]

That may be true, but doesn't explain why SRAM parts are more expensive than Shimano - the brake pads I mentioned elsewhere. Brake rotors are another. The near identical 200/203mm rotor is around R200 more if its SRAM - Sorry, just checked - its R300 more and I got an old stock Shimano item for R400 less than the R895 the SRAM item costs. 

 

R10k for a set of decent, enduro/dh capable brakes i.e comparable to Shimano brakes that cost half to 2/3 of the price and are often on special? Someone is taking the piss. 

 

 

The prices are comparable when you get the tiering right.

XTR brakes are around R5500 per side. Sometimes someones selling them as a set for etween R6k to R8 but I still wouldn't buy brakes where the only spares are the pads and everything else is disposable.

As for the rest of the products and drivetrain components are all within 10% of each other, and it swings either way. The only components of Shimano that is significantly cheaper than its SRAM equivalent is the 12speed cassettes, but then they don't last as long

[sucramuk]

So you've set the top paddle/ button to go down the cassette now?

 

Must admit I had a few moments on my first ride Saturday fumbling with the switch!

I’ve had AXS for a while and after 1 ride I swapped the shifting as it felt counter intuitive - did the same with my gravel bike

The GX option looks awesome

Edited March 29, 2021 by sucramuk

[Headshot]

The prices are comparable when you get the tiering right.

XTR brakes are around R5500 per side. Sometimes someones selling them as a set for etween R6k to R8 but I still wouldn't buy brakes where the only spares are the pads and everything else is disposable.

As for the rest of the products and drivetrain components are all within 10% of each other, and it swings either way. The only components of Shimano that is significantly cheaper than its SRAM equivalent is the 12speed cassettes, but then they don't last as long

I am comparing brake pads and rotors - like for like. There is a massive discrepancy in prices. 6 bolt RT66 for Centerline 6 bolt. 600 vs 900.

 

The brake set reference is to brakes that offer the same or better stopping power - you don't need XTR to get potent brakes, you buy Deore for R3k. However, you do need to pony up R10k to get decent stopping power with SRAM as their lower level offerings are terrible. My now ex Guide R's needed an expensive lever repair. The paint is peeling off thanks to fluid seepage at the master cylinder on both levers. My much older SLX brakes still offer better stopping power. My wife's ancient Formula R1's haven't needed to be touched and the paint doesn't peel off. As you know, and with your help, I just fitted some well used XT785's to my enduro bike. What a revelation. I barely notice them which is the way it should be. 

 

I do like the GX cassettes and the derailleur I have but if I could rid myself of the shifter I'd be happy. Will an 11s Shimano work with a SRAM derailleur? Mmmm.

[DieselnDust]

I am comparing brake pads and rotors - like for like. There is a massive discrepancy in prices. 6 bolt RT66 for Centerline 6 bolt. 600 vs 900.

 

This is a difficult comparison to make. Shimano sells various brake rotors at a wide range of price points, like they tier the rotors. SRAM makes either a laser cut steel rotor or the two piece unit with alloy carrier. If we take the average price they the price evens out. SO it appears its just marketing and more specifically where each company whats the market to perceive its product is pitched, influences the pricing more than any real technical difference. RT66 is a stamped rotor not cut so there's that.

 

The brake set reference is to brakes that offer the same or better stopping power - you don't need XTR to get potent brakes, you buy Deore for R3k. However, you do need to pony up R10k to get decent stopping power with SRAM as their lower level offerings are terrible. My now ex Guide R's needed an expensive lever repair. The paint is peeling off thanks to fluid seepage at the master cylinder on both levers. My much older SLX brakes still offer better stopping power. My wife's ancient Formula R1's haven't needed to be touched and the paint doesn't peel off. As you know, and with your help, I just fitted some well used XT785's to my enduro bike. What a revelation. I barely notice them which is the way it should be. 

 

If we going to just talk performance comparison then the discussion stops at Formula Cura. Best bang for your buck #fullstop makes both Shimano and SRAM seem overpriced.

Old SRAM brakes, ya hit and miss. The latest brakes are superb but like any DoT system requires annual maintenance. Without that it will become a dogs breakfast. Mineral oil systems can take a bit more abuse in me experience, especially older Shimano brakes. The latest stuff.....no thanks

 

I do like the GX cassettes and the derailleur I have but if I could rid myself of the shifter I'd be happy. Will an 11s Shimano work with a SRAM derailleur? Mmmm.

Nope but the 12 speed is interchangeable

[Headshot]

RT66 and Centerline are both straight steel, no carrier and metal pad compatible - but a fat price difference that you can't feel on the trail. 

 

The Guides are 2018 - they seep brake fluid for no reason. They lack power compared to Deore and the levers give crap and they are overpriced in SA. What's to like? 

 

i've briefly tested the Cura's and found them a tad underpowered, but maybe that was just the set I tried. 

 

I rest my case. :-)

[Rob K]

I’ve had AXS for a while and after 1 ride I swapped the shifting as it felt counter intuitive - did the same with my gravel bike

 

The GX option looks awesome

 

Exactly how i felt when I tried out the AXS - I kept going the wrong way!!!

 

Solved that problem by adding the new SRAM Rocker paddle to my GX AXS order.

 

https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/ec-axs-rock-a1

Edited March 29, 2021 by Rob K

[sirmoun10goat]

RT66 and Centerline are both straight steel, no carrier and metal pad compatible - but a fat price difference that you can't feel on the trail. 

 

The Guides are 2018 - they seep brake fluid for no reason. They lack power compared to Deore and the levers give crap and they are overpriced in SA. What's to like? 

 

i've briefly tested the Cura's and found them a tad underpowered, but maybe that was just the set I tried. 

 

I rest my case. :-)

 

DnD has put forward sound justification - you seem to be anti SRAM, and that's your perogtive. But that does not make SRAM more expensive nor inferior

 

And you also don't seem to like Curas, which are very highly rated.

 

Not sure what case you resting

[Jbr]

You can keep the microspline freehub and Shimano cassette and use it with the GX system no problem.

Most of the weight in the GX AXS rear derailleur is in the jockey pulley cage. You could probably replace this very stiff steel cage with the upcoming Csixx bling bling alloy SRAM jockey pulley cage and still have a saving over X01 or XX1 and xtr.

Functionally it's the same as it's more expensive family members with the added clutch bolt cover and battery protection cover which doesn't have to be fitted if you want to save a few grams.

It's very impressive. The shifter feels the same as the XX1 axs just a little heavier

 

Do you have a link about that upcoming Csixx cage ? Can't find anything my side. I did a little bit of research to evaluate the weight difference between my current XTR and the GX AXS :

 

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/mountain-bike/a35936376/sram-gx-eagle-axs-review/#:~:text=SRAM%20GX%20Eagle%20AXS%E2%80%94What's%20New&text=All%20three%20rear%20derailleurs%20share,grams%20heavier%20than%20X01%20AXS.

(according to this article the GX shifter is lighter than the XX1?)

 

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/shimano-xtr-m9100-vs-sram-x01-eagle-review/

 

I just replaced my XT cassette (the price difference for XTR was just too much for weight difference) so I'd keep the chain/cassette/chainring and only change the cassette/chain for XX1 later on (or not)

 

- GX Derailleur = 439 g

- GX shifter 68 g

 

- XTR derailleur = 252 g

- XTR shifter 122g

 

GX 507g vs XTR 374g so I would lose 133g excluding the cable and hose by doing that switch. I must check but I would be surprised if cable+hose were up to 40g, then with that csix cage I could actually come back down to more or less the same weight as with the XTR !

 

I know it sounds like nothing, but I already added quite a bit of weight to my horse when I replaced the carbon seatpost with my old lyne dropper, and every 100g will count when the marathon races eventually resume

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jbr

[DieselnDust]

Do you have a link about that upcoming Csixx cage ? Can't find anything my side. I did a little bit of research to evaluate the weight difference between my current XTR and the GX AXS :

 

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/mountain-bike/a35936376/sram-gx-eagle-axs-review/#:~:text=SRAM%20GX%20Eagle%20AXS—What's%20New&text=All%20three%20rear%20derailleurs%20share,grams%20heavier%20than%20X01%20AXS.

(according to this article the GX shifter is lighter than the XX1?)

 

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/shimano-xtr-m9100-vs-sram-x01-eagle-review/

 

I just replaced my XT cassette (the price difference for XTR was just too much for weight difference) so I'd keep the chain/cassette/chainring and only change the cassette/chain for XX1 later on (or not)

 

- GX Derailleur = 439 g

- GX shifter 68 g

 

- XTR derailleur = 252 [/size]g

- XTR shifter 122g

 

GX 507g vs XTR 374g so I would lose 133g excluding the cable and hose by doing that switch. I must check but I would be surprised if cable+hose were up to 40g, then with that csix cage I could actually come back down to more or less the same weight as with the XTR !

 

I know it sounds like nothing, but I already added quite a bit of weight to my horse when I replaced the carbon seatpost with my old lyne dropper, and every 100g will count when the marathon races eventually resume

Csixx posted a teaser on Instagram about a week back.

[Headshot]

DnD has put forward sound justification - you seem to be anti SRAM, and that's your perogtive. But that does not make SRAM more expensive nor inferior

 

And you also don't seem to like Curas, which are very highly rated.

 

Not sure what case you resting

No, I'm not anti SRAM unless I have had a bad experience with their components, of which I have had a few.

 

I hear Shimano 12 speed clutches are problematic so i'd avoid one of those until the issues are resolved. I don't doubt SRAM cassettes last longer - I've got one and its holding up very well. I love the derailleur too and the cheap chain which is also lasting well. I hope it does because at R2900 for an 11 speed cassette, it better. Shifter ergonomics are poor in my opinion. I swop between a Saint 10 speed and GX and the difference is not earth shattering but the Saint is so much nicer.  I have even considered converting my enduro bike to 10 speed because of the difference. 

 

As far as price is concerned, the facts are clear, SRAM is over priced in SA. Not sure what you're not understanding. Or do you disbelieve my empirical evidence and discount it on the basis of perceived bias because you are a SRAM fan guy? 

[Rob K]

Gents,

 

Please school me here - will the GX AXS fit directly onto a Shimano 12 speed ie keeping the cassette etc.

 

So will just bolt on in place of the Shimano derailleur? 

[Jbr]

Gents,

 

Please school me here - will the GX AXS fit directly onto a Shimano 12 speed ie keeping the cassette etc.

 

So will just bolt on in place of the Shimano derailleur? 

Yes, apparently you can do that, that's what I'm planning to do.

 

Theoretically, I'd say it's pretty much just the pulley wheels with the XTR chain that could cause an issue. The rest shouldn't be a problem especially since you can trim each gear individually in case the spacing between gears is a bit funny.

 

There's been comments on this thread before and I've seen also on youtube people say it works very very well that way so I'll most likely give it a try soon.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jbr

[DieselnDust]

Gents,

 

Please school me here - will the GX AXS fit directly onto a Shimano 12 speed ie keeping the cassette etc.

 

So will just bolt on in place of the Shimano derailleur? 

 

 

yes just set the upper and lower limits correctly. 

As JBR intimates, the Shimano chain on SRAM pulley wheels could be a problem but the SRAM chain on the Shimano cassette is fine,s o i'd just use a SRAM Chain