Rant: Bad Deals

[ChrisF]

6 hours ago, Eldron said:

Hands up everyone who has forced a potential buyer to sign a contract without seeing the goods and then successfully dragged then through the courts without wasting 100 hours of their life after the buyer reneged on the deal.

The CPA may make that slightly tricky ... 

[Nick]

3 hours ago, ChrisF said:

The CPA may make that slightly tricky ... 

Private sales are generally not covered by the CPA unless the person sells bikes as part of the “ordinary course of business” (with some extra exceptions). Such as a shop or second hand dealer.

[AdamA]

16 hours ago, eddy said:

No, I would issue summons in the small claims court.

@eddy I am genuinely interested... What would the claim be and how would you process it?

Would it be for :

 R10000 - the price of the Bike ( which you haven't paid anything for, but you believe you you have some rights too) 

 R15000 - the difference between the Exact new bike at R25000 less the bargain at R10000

 R5000 - the difference between the Exact used bike at R15000 less the bargain at R10000 

 R3000 - the difference between bargain at R10000  and the price you could sell it in a weeks time for R13000

or something else like R1000 for wasted time?

 

[AdamA]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

Private sales are generally not covered by the CPA unless the person sells bikes as part of the “ordinary course of business” (with some extra exceptions). Such as a shop or second hand dealer who is registered as a 'Second hand goods dealer'.

Fixed.

 

 

 

[Steady Spin]

33 minutes ago, AdamA said:

Fixed.

 

 

 

Speaking of secondhand goods dealers on this here hub. How many of them actually comply with the secondhand regulations like taking copies of IDs etc...

[Eddy Gordo]

What has happened to a persons word is there bond! Its quite clear that some people really on the word is gold, deal is done scenario. I am sort of in this category when buying. When I sell, and I agree to the sale, thats it. Deal is done. I also dont believe in giving it to some one else who comes along with more money. I treat every deal as if I am standing in the checkout que. The person after me is exactly where they should be. No que jumping.

However, I have had buyers show interest in stuff, make arrangements to meet and then go cold. However that still has not changed the way I would sell an item. If its an item I really want to buy, then I will try and get there within an hour. I have also told sellers to sell, when they informed me someone else is there, then they contact me again to say its still available. So why did the buyer not take the item? thats when I find something else. Dont let the used market get to you. There are deals that will come your way, when it should.

@Nico van Loggerenberg what size dual sus you looking for and what is the budget? 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Eddy Gordo

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

31 minutes ago, Eddy Gordo said:

What has happened to a persons word is there bond! Its quite clear that some people really on the word is gold, deal is done scenario. I am sort of in this category when buying. When I sell, and I agree to the sale, thats it. Deal is done. I also dont believe in giving it to some one else who comes along with more money. I treat every deal as if I am standing in the checkout que. The person after me is exactly where they should be. No que jumping.

However, I have had buyers show interest in stuff, make arrangements to meet and then go cold. However that still has not changed the way I would sell an item. If its an item I really want to buy, then I will try and get there within an hour. I have also told sellers to sell, when they informed me someone else is there, then they contact me again to say its still available. So why did the buyer not take the item? thats when I find something else. Dont let the used market get to you. There are deals that will come your way, when it should.

@Nico van Loggerenberg what size dual sus you looking for and what is the budget? 

100% with you. 

 

Large or maybe medium trail bike, sub R30k, aka hen's teeth. 

[eddy]

35 minutes ago, AdamA said:

@eddy I am genuinely interested... What would the claim be and how would you process it?

Would it be for :

 R10000 - the price of the Bike ( which you haven't paid anything for, but you believe you you have some rights too) 

 R15000 - the difference between the Exact new bike at R25000 less the bargain at R10000

 R5000 - the difference between the Exact used bike at R15000 less the bargain at R10000 

 R3000 - the difference between bargain at R10000  and the price you could sell it in a weeks time for R13000

or something else like R1000 for wasted time?

 

If a contract was established, and you were prepared to honour your side of the agreement and pay R10 000, the claim would be for the delivery of the bike in question or for damages. The choice is yours. 

You may think that this is all theoretical but happens everyday when contracts of sale are breached and the aggrieved party chooses to exercise their rights under the contract. 

There are no specific rules for the sale of secondhand cycling equipment, and most people just allow the guy to get away with it, rate him down  and then complain on the Hub, which actually is the rational approach.

Your reply is in response to my comment that said I would issue summons in the small claims court. You may choose to do something else. I would choose to make the guy see the error of his ways, and make good his breach.

ps. 

You say above: "R10000 - the price of the Bike ( which you haven't paid anything for, but you believe you you have some rights too)" 

It is not a belief, it is a certainty.

If a contract has been established and the sale is perfecta, not only does the buyer  have rights, but so does the seller even if no cash or bicycle has  been exchanged.  You are entitled to the bike and he is entitled to the R10000.

IIRC, one of the consequences is that risk passes upon the contract establishment and if (through no fault of his own) the bike gets damaged or stolen before he hands it to you, you must still give him the R10000, and hope your insurance company will pay you out for your loss. 

It may not appear fair, but chat to your lawyer and check it out.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

27 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

100% with you. 

 

Large or maybe medium trail bike, sub R30k, aka hen's teeth. 

at that budget you limiting yourself. Pricing these days are off the scales. Have a look at new.

https://bike-addict.co.za/collections/mtb/products/merida-one-twenty-400-2021

if you ad a bit more you have a wider choice

[Trashy]

1 hour ago, Eddy Gordo said:

What has happened to a persons word is there bond!

I think current events have clearly shown that integrity is severely lacking in our society in general...

 

When selling items I don't ever commit to keeping an item for someone, unless they inform me that they are literally on their way to me. If they have phoned, shown sincere interest and their online presence indicates that they are legitimate, then I will sometimes hold an item until that evening. The crucial aspect being (as has already been noted in this thread) that I am 100% open about the terms under which I operate. I don't like wasting anyone's time, least of all mine.

On the other side, I have also suffered the same frustration as the OP recently in attempting to purchase a used vehicle. On three occasions I have committed to a sale (So long as the inspection shows the vehicle to be in the condition advertised) and the seller has reneged on the deal the day before I was coming to purchase.

Frustrating, yes, but unless there is loss of time or money on my part, it is water under a bridge.

[Trashy]

39 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

100% with you. 

 

Large or maybe medium trail bike, sub R30k, aka hen's teeth. 

If you are willing to go with a 650b, there are some great deals to be found. I recently picked up a carbon 130mm trail bike in your budget. It had been advertised on the Hub for over a week when I contacted the seller.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

25 minutes ago, Trashy said:

I think current events have clearly shown that integrity is severely lacking in our society in general...

 

When selling items I don't ever commit to keeping an item for someone, unless they inform me that they are literally on their way to me. If they have phoned, shown sincere interest and their online presence indicates that they are legitimate, then I will sometimes hold an item until that evening. The crucial aspect being (as has already been noted in this thread) that I am 100% open about the terms under which I operate. I don't like wasting anyone's time, least of all mine.

On the other side, I have also suffered the same frustration as the OP recently in attempting to purchase a used vehicle. On three occasions I have committed to a sale (So long as the inspection shows the vehicle to be in the condition advertised) and the seller has reneged on the deal the day before I was coming to purchase.

Frustrating, yes, but unless there is loss of time or money on my part, it is water under a bridge.

Yes, you get it. I'm not stating that there is a universal way all deals need to run, but if we agree, one on one, I expect that to be honoured. 

23 minutes ago, Trashy said:

If you are willing to go with a 650b, there are some great deals to be found. I recently picked up a carbon 130mm trail bike in your budget. It had been advertised on the Hub for over a week when I contacted the seller.

No issue with smaller wheel sizes, happy to look around. Going to take some other advice and advertise a wanted ad I think.

[Jewbacca]

15 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

 

No issue with smaller wheel sizes, happy to look around. Going to take some other advice and advertise a wanted ad I think.

There are some killer deals on Frames in the classifieds. If you picked up the Large Silverback or the Med Giant you could easily build a killer trail bike within budget.

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-mountain-bike-frames/482053/silverback-surface-frame-140mm

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Jewbacca
Giant frame sold

[bertusras]

41 minutes ago, Eddy Gordo said:

at that budget you limiting yourself. Pricing these days are off the scales.

Nico's issue stems from the fact that when he did find something in his budget, het got shafted by a seller who 'got a better offer'. It's happened to me before as well, and as annoying as it is, what can you do? Taking them to the small claims court might be an option, but it's not like you can sue for specific performance if the bike has already been sold on. So you're suing for damages, but you need to then prove damages, which doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle.

Heck, I was once on my way to pick up a bike (arranged, agreed price, everything) in Joburg when I got a call from the seller saying that there's someone else at his premises willing to pay 20% more, am I willing to match it. I was stunned! I said thanks but no thanks and turned around and went back home. Ridiculous.

The rating system is also a contentious issue in my opinion. I'm a firm believer that it should only be used when an actual transaction has taken place to prevent frivolous ratings from being issued nilly-willy, but that makes rating these dodgy non-transactions impossible as well.

[Bomberman]

28 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Yes, you get it. I'm not stating that there is a universal way all deals need to run, but if we agree, one on one, I expect that to be honoured. 

No issue with smaller wheel sizes, happy to look around. Going to take some other advice and advertise a wanted ad I think.

if wheel size is not an issue then look at these bikes.

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/485189/2016-commencal-meta-v4-andorra-edition

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/484718/scott-genius-750

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/483098/giant-reign-advanced-1-2016

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/480467/trek-fuel-ex-8-2018

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, Bomberman said:

if wheel size is not an issue then look at these bikes.

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/485189/2016-commencal-meta-v4-andorra-edition

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/484718/scott-genius-750

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/483098/giant-reign-advanced-1-2016

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/480467/trek-fuel-ex-8-2018

I really want this....

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/dual-suspension-bikes/485189/2016-commencal-meta-v4-andorra-edition

I was wondering how much I could get for my carbon Titan Cypher 120mm yesterday and whether it would cover this bike and allow me to build a 'cheap' hard tail for AR