Cape Town wants to ban cyclists from promenade

[Jewbacca]

45 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

Not sure why you mention all those other things - they are false equivalents and have nothing to do with the subject of cycling on the promenade.  Not really sure what your point was.

As a cyclist, I feel there is no need to ride on the promenade as it is just too narrow with too many highly variable and unpredictable obstacles - kids, dogs, grannies on zimmers, families walking 5 abreast etc etc.  Riders on the promenade also  often have little  regard for other users in terms of line and speed and I have personally witnessed numerous near misses and unpleasant encounters.   I support the ban and moving riders to the other lane - makes complete sense once we get over our sense of entitlement.

I agree with you about the point, but DJR's point was the point of deflection. 

The city has a history of creating news to buy time while not addressing other, more poignant issues.

 

[MTBeer]

6 hours ago, DJR said:

Me too, and just because I'm grumpy today, I wrote a lekker long comment too.

Bru, you sound like me. Grumpy every day.

[DJR]

3 hours ago, PygaSchmyga said:

.............

As a cyclist, I feel there is no need to ride on the promenade as it is just too narrow with too many highly variable and unpredictable obstacles - kids, dogs, grannies on zimmers, families walking 5 abreast etc etc.  Riders on the promenade also  often have little  regard for other users in terms of line and speed and I have personally witnessed numerous near misses and unpleasant encounters.  ...............

If you look at it purely from a "competitive" cyclist point of view, then yes, it makes no sense to use the promenade. Going down Beach Rd with your group at 30 km/h is a much better way.

BUT

You have to remember that there are many other kinds of cyclists also, and for many of them the promenade makes more sense and it does not have to increase risk for anyone. Imagine a tourist renting a city bike and just cruising at jogger speed. Imagine a 6 year old with a 12 inch bike riding with his mom who is jogging. Imagine the guy riding a 1980s chopper as a fashion statement. I'm not even talking about the longboarder or the in line skater who they also want to ban. 

 

[DJR]

3 hours ago, PygaSchmyga said:

Not sure why you mention all those other things - they are false equivalents and have nothing to do with the subject of cycling on the promenade.  Not really sure what your point was.

...................

I mentioned those other things, because as a ratepayer I would rather the City spend my money on fixing those things before wasting it on something like this exercise in distraction. Hope my point is now a little clearer.

[PygaSchmyga]

12 minutes ago, DJR said:

If you look at it purely from a "competitive" cyclist point of view, then yes, it makes no sense to use the promenade. Going down Beach Rd with your group at 30 km/h is a much better way.

BUT

You have to remember that there are many other kinds of cyclists also, and for many of them the promenade makes more sense and it does not have to increase risk for anyone. Imagine a tourist renting a city bike and just cruising at jogger speed. Imagine a 6 year old with a 12 inch bike riding with his mom who is jogging. Imagine the guy riding a 1980s chopper as a fashion statement. I'm not even talking about the longboarder or the in line skater who they also want to ban. 

 

i think all bicycles, and especially the ones you mentioned are a menace on a promenade, not only the mamils.  Any maybe the other wheeled activities should also move to the other lane too.  Its a crowded space, best enjoyed by people on foot not having to worry about muppets trying to thread inbetween people sauntering down the beachfront.

[Jewbacca]

32 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

i think all bicycles, and especially the ones you mentioned are a menace on a promenade, not only the mamils.  Any maybe the other wheeled activities should also move to the other lane too.  Its a crowded space, best enjoyed by people on foot not having to worry about muppets trying to thread inbetween people sauntering down the beachfront.

I actually agree

The promenae linking muizenberg to St James is pet and vehicle free. Walkers and joggers only. 

It is WAY better 

There are other places like the Green Point park for tots to safely ride their push bikes and get in each others' way

[Mamil]

42 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

i think all bicycles, and especially the ones you mentioned are a menace on a promenade, not only the mamils.  Any maybe the other wheeled activities should also move to the other lane too.  Its a crowded space, best enjoyed by people on foot not having to worry about muppets trying to thread inbetween people sauntering down the beachfront.

Easy on the mamils there.

And jeez... @DJR thought he was grumpy.

I was grumpy earlier today when a Muppet on a motorbike pulled up virtually on top of me as I was practicing my track stand at a robot. What the f#$k quoth the mamil. "You're in the middle of the road @#$head" quoth the Muppet.

I am slightly ashamed of what I said to him after that and so it went until we parted ways at the next robot. Really I need to practice more meditation or something because the b@stards are getting me down.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Mamil
Clarity

[Mamil]

5 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I actually agree

The promenae linking muizenberg to St James is pet and vehicle free. Walkers and joggers only. 

It is WAY better 

There are other places like the Green Point park for tots to safely ride their push bikes and get in each others' way

Pretty sketchy for mamils though

[Nick]

4 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

i think all bicycles, and especially the ones you mentioned are a menace on a promenade, not only the mamils.  Any maybe the other wheeled activities should also move to the other lane too.  Its a crowded space, best enjoyed by people on foot not having to worry about muppets trying to thread inbetween people sauntering down the beachfront.

Yes, it does get stupidly busy. But when? I'd wager that the area is busy less often than most people think. I'm idealistic but I like data-based decision making rather than presumptions.

One of my suggestions was to collect this information and potentially implement a 'busy times' restriction of sorts depending on the findings. For instance, it was largely deserted when I last rode there (a Saturday afternoon, nogal). I was a menace to very few people that day.

A blanket ban is lazy and doesn't engage the issue in an equitable manner. Why not try some measures to reduce the risks/frustrations before going full ban?

[Nick]

16 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

The promenae linking muizenberg to St James is pet and vehicle free. Walkers and joggers only. 

It is WAY better 

It's two people wide. I support that too.

Still puzzled by why they didn't build the planned bike lane on the parallel Main Road when they renovated it, however. An opportunity lost. Perhaps why I'm so prickly about losing cycling space, when the City has said that they're cycling friendly.

[DJR]

10 hours ago, Nick said:

It's two people wide. I support that too.

Still puzzled by why they didn't build the planned bike lane on the parallel Main Road when they renovated it, however. An opportunity lost. Perhaps why I'm so prickly about losing cycling space, when the City has said that they're cycling friendly.

They did not build a cycle lane through St J ames and Kalk Bay in favour of more on street parking. 

[Nick]

1 hour ago, DJR said:

They did not build a cycle lane through St J ames and Kalk Bay in favour of more on street parking. 

The parking between Kalk Bay and Clovelly, that is only ever used over New Year, is a painful reminder. But we did get a frequently used by cyclists sign, I suppose we should be grateful 😕

[Meezo]

2 minutes ago, Nick said:

The parking between Kalk Bay and Clovelly, that is only ever used over New Year, is a painful reminder. But we did get a frequently used by cyclists sign, I suppose we should be grateful 😕

This one?

[Jewbacca]

3 minutes ago, Nick said:

The parking between Kalk Bay and Clovelly, that is only ever used over New Year, is a painful reminder. But we did get a frequently used by cyclists sign, I suppose we should be grateful 😕

There is also the swathe of parking on the golden bricks between Muizenberg and St James. 

That is busy with all the kids/families beach going and the tidal pool junkies. 

I am less outraged by all this. I don't see cyclists being entitled to anything. A cycle lane on the main road there would just be used as a loading zone/parking anyway IMHO. 

[Nick]

33 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

There is also the swathe of parking on the golden bricks between Muizenberg and St James. 

That is busy with all the kids/families beach going and the tidal pool junkies. 

I am less outraged by all this. I don't see cyclists being entitled to anything. A cycle lane on the main road there would just be used as a loading zone/parking anyway IMHO. 

You sound defeated. This isn't just about cyclists being entitled to things. The negative consequences, if we don't drastically change the way we move are huge (regardless of the mode, include walking, skating, public transport, scooter, and cycling as some examples). Those kiddies might not even have a beach to park at if we don't. And I'm sure they'd have far more fun and be healthier catching the train or riding their bicycle for part of that journey.

The reaction by some to the promenade ban is a reaction to this and the City's lack of meaningful change in transport, than it is to the actual luxury of using the space. The ban includes more than bicycles too. 

[Eldron]

To be fair - TIA - the ban won't change anything unless City of Cape Town sends some overzealous guards to enforce the new rules.

South Africans see laws as a rough guidelines :-)