SRAM announce hangerless Eagle Transmission drivetrains

[lechatnoir]

4 minutes ago, TheoG said:

The price disqualifies it for me simple as that.  I just spent ~R10k on GX AXS, that must last for a number of years to justify the expense first before even considering this new RD.

clearly you're not the target market. and neither am I come to think of it.

[DieselnDust]

32 minutes ago, WIPEOUT 1000 said:

I am graduate mechanical engineer with more than 30 years experience in the design, building, operation and maintenance of mechanical plant & equipment and from my perspective the issues PT raised are legit.

What type of engineer are you and how does that make you qualified to claim that everything PT said had no engineering merit and is just pure emotion?

Do you possibly also ride SRAM? 

 

 

Mech Eng, 

5 years in Defense products, specifically fuzing mechanisms, pyrotechnics, plastics, rocket motors and warheads.

24 years in petrochemical from petroleum products to pressure vessels into rotating equipment and tribology

Yes i do ride SRAM on my MTB, Shimano on my road bike. Not sure what it has to do with the argument put forward in PT's video. My biggest grip with current drivetrains is the lack of alignement created by tolerance creep of the frame, drop out interface, dropout and then hanger. All these have to be corrected by a tool most shops don't bother to use correctly.

SRAM introduce a system where the thru axle, hub, cassette and derailleur are all mechanically aligned through interfaces that have very low tolerances and we're moaning about it because its expensive. Those are separate arguments.

 

can you point out where his statements have merit? I've addressed my concerns with his arguments as posted in his video.

Edited March 22, 2023 by DieselnDust

[Headshot]

2 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Mech Eng, 

5 years in Defense products, specifically fuzing mechanisms, pyrotechnics, plastics, rocket motors and warheads.

24 years in petrochemical from petroleum products to pressure vessels into rotating equipment and tribology

can you point out where his statements have merit? I've addressed my concerns with his arguments as posted in his video.

Dunno why I thought you were a chem engineer 🙂 

[DieselnDust]

44 minutes ago, Yyyy said:

Im interested in understanding whether this will work well with

1) Shimano Chain, Cassette and Cranks (55mm chain line)

2) Bikes that do not have a 55mm chain line (is this adjustable?)

The other thing to consider if this tech gets trickled down to GX is that anyone who currently owns a non UDH or non 148 boost frame wont be able to get this new transmission system.

Shimano focusing on the peoples market with CUES and Sram focusing on the top end market with Eagle.

The derailleur and shifter will likely work well with the Shimano drivetrain parts as they currently do.

Th cassette is just more accomodating to 55mm chainline bikes like the new Scott SPark, Cannondale Scalpel, Trek Super Caliberand upcoming new bike from Specialized. There will be more XCO/XCM bikes using 55m chainline because its allows more clearance for 2.4" tyres

41 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I think time will tell whether any of his concerns have merit or not. Like when you try and get your gears working and there's no scope to adjust the hanger. Oh, but they say its indestructible?Hold my beer SRAM!

Right now, the price makes it an absolute nonsense IMO. I love the fact that Shimano  are making sure that "normal" cyclists have decent long lasting and reliable shifting be it 10 speed or 12 speed at a price that is affordable. To me this new eagle is just elite nonsense that will remain unaffordable for most cyclists.  The youtube shills are at it in force on this one... 

time will indeed tell as with all things. Bear in mind these components have been in the public eye for almost a year and no public failures despite the riders desire to inflict as much harm as possible.

Joe Soap on the other hand, ya well no hey....

 

The price is simply unattainable to me. The bike industry seems to be on the side drug induced high of the late 80's early 90's. TRP looks very promising right now...

6 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Dunno why I thought you were a chem engineer 🙂 

Probably because that's where I've spent the bulk of my life

[PappaWatTrap]

32 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Mech Eng, 

5 years in Defense products, specifically fuzing mechanisms, pyrotechnics, plastics, rocket motors and warheads.

24 years in petrochemical from petroleum products to pressure vessels into rotating equipment and tribology

Yes i do ride SRAM on my MTB, Shimano on my road bike. Not sure what it has to do with the argument put forward in PT's video. My biggest grip with current drivetrains is the lack of alignement created by tolerance creep of the frame, drop out interface, dropout and then hanger. All these have to be corrected by a tool most shops don't bother to use correctly.

SRAM introduce a system where the thru axle, hub, cassette and derailleur are all mechanically aligned through interfaces that have very low tolerances and we're moaning about it because its expensive. Those are separate arguments.

 

can you point out where his statements have merit? I've addressed my concerns with his arguments as posted in his video.

Fellow mechanical engineer here, massive shimano fanboy and there are few things that get me worked up as the cheap SRAM stuff do. 
 

But with all my Shimano bias I do agree with you. The thru axle will pull everything into flush positions against the hub, so the derailleur should be in the same position every time in reference to the cassette and hub. It will eat the play up in the frame. 
 

or am I missing something here?

[The Ouzo]

did not watch the vid(s), youtube on the banned list at work.

All this talk of the through axle keeping things in line makes me wonder, will the RD then move if you take the TA off to take the wheel off ?

Might be stupid question, but like I said havent watched any of the vids.

[lechatnoir]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

<snip>

can you point out where his statements have merit? I've addressed my concerns with his arguments as posted in his video.

he indicates that fuzzy tolerances in frame construction will be apparently in shifting. probably correct. will it be noticeable,? who knows?

my intuition says that break-away hangers are great for saving frames, as I've had to replace a good few hangers instead of frames, so I like the idea. This SRAM design flies in the face of that... Is it a good idea? no idea. i'd rather break something cheap than something expensive.

I'm an earth scientist... wtf do i know? other than the earth is heard when I or my bike land on it...

@$650 a pop, I'm better served putting that towards a trip towards a cycling trip in Mallorca than hanging some bling on my bike that will only deteriorate with age, while holiday memories will only get better...

[DieselnDust]

17 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

did not watch the vid(s), youtube on the banned list at work.

All this talk of the through axle keeping things in line makes me wonder, will the RD then move if you take the TA off to take the wheel off ?

Might be stupid question, but like I said havent watched any of the vids.

No it won't

In UDH compatible frames the drop out is removed and another threaded insert is installed. The derailleur hangs off that insert. Alignment is sorted during this installation and the derailleur doesn't move thereafter, unless the bike dropped out of the workstand and takes a vertical displacement that the overload clutch isn't designed to handle.

 

another thing I've thought through is that all this noise abou a hanger being such a good thing. Why? has anyone actually remove on and inspected how its mounted to the frame? There are two M2 screws about 10mm in length that thread from one end of the hanger to the other. Inother words the hanger is mounted clevis style on some bikes or just the screw through the carbon into the dropout for flush mount. Hit that hard enough and those two little screws will rip into the carbon damaging the entire drop out structure as the hanger is deformed. So I still see the T-type system as an improvement

[DieselnDust]

43 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

he indicates that fuzzy tolerances in frame construction will be apparently in shifting. probably correct. will it be noticeable,? who knows?

He doesn't say how and ignores the mounting alignment between derailleur, thru axle. He makes insinuation that the derailleur can float side to side. My understanding is that is accounted for and adjusted during installation. There's a few pros bikes with it in the Oak Valley race village that seem to be doing ok. Time will indeed tell.

SRAM has been testing this kit on many many different bikes. Does Peak torque think they have not seen tolerance difference and accounted for it? I think he's seen Hambini hit 200,000 and now he's looking for click bait

my intuition says that break-away hangers are great for saving frames, as I've had to replace a good few hangers instead of frames, so I like the idea. This SRAM design flies in the face of that... Is it a good idea? no idea. i'd rather break something cheap than something expensive.

I'm an earth scientist... wtf do i know? other than the earth is heard when I or my bike land on it...

@$650 a pop, I'm better served putting that towards a trip towards a cycling trip in Mallorca than hanging some bling on my bike that will only deteriorate with age, while holiday memories will only get better...

 

totally agree, I have no skin in this expensive game but it still looks like a great product that solves a few 50year design legacies and dogmas we haven't challenged.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by DieselnDust

[splat]

I'm waiting for Hambini to pour scorn on all of you and the Sram boffins
(or maybe he will like this new stuff)
🤡

[Alastair_S1D]

1 hour ago, splat said:

I'm waiting for Hambini to pour scorn on all of you and the Sram boffins
(or maybe he will like this new stuff)
🤡

Reaming... By a 5 year old. 

[Kom]

My epic has a UDH hangar and recently removed my RD to check if the hangar was straight. (My indexing was behaving weird and generally start here).

these hangars are already of a different indestructible construction if you ask me, before UDH I could easily bend my hangars straight with two shifting spanner’s, not a chance with this one.

my point is that much of the concern around this new RD from sram, actually already exists in the UDH design itself, and it’s already here. Don’t think it’s SRAMs fault (or place to be criticised) for what is a revolution in RD design.

as a bush mechanic myself, I see much of the independence in running the latest tech falling away, you either move with the times or ride old equipment or lesser spec.

As an aside, I’ve never owned an electronic shifting drivetrain myself and probably won’t anytime soon, but the new product choices are becoming constrained with both shimano and sram moving in this direction of battery dependencies, from what I can tell non of the SRAM RDs are cable driven in the new range?

[DieselnDust]

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/workshop/how-to-install-and-set-up-sram-t-type-eagle/?fbclid=IwAR3PUM3MKL-adKiYZLWbi8d8zcBHRRlfhnF_Jty5sBsMyHoIDnCAK7hC5RI&mibextid=kdkkhi
 

Here is a graphical set up guide 

PS: PT has been corrected by several commenters to his video. I suspect he will be retracting the drivel he posted to his YouTube account before the end of the week once his click bait video has lost momentum in its hit count

[Danger Dassie]

I genuinely like the direction SRAM have taken with this, for the long term it makes stuff far more reliable and there will be plenty trickle down by default, which benefits us as riders. 
Other players are also entering the market, like TRP and Microshift. More choice for he consumer which is a win.
The real angst should be around MTBs becoming increasingly integrated with brake/cables through the headset area. It will make for super high servicing costs. 

[V18]

All I read was even cheaper 1x11 components in the near future. I\'m more than happy to scavenge perfectly working parts off those who want to ride the \"best\".

[Headshot]

12 minutes ago, V18 said:

All I read was even cheaper 1x11 components in the near future. I\'m more than happy to scavenge perfectly working parts off those who want to ride the \"best\".

Yes it does have that advantage for the rest of us but in fact all you have to do is shop around for Shimano Deore, brand new. My wife just went next level on her 10 speed 1x with an 11 -46 cassette and 10/11 speed derailleur for the massive sum of R1400.00.