CSA introduces National Road Cycling Series

[Zeffer]

13 hours ago, DroppedRider said:

Sorry if I missed it.  Do you work for CSA?

I sit on the road commission yeh. Bunch of volunteer from all the provinces tryin our best.

[OVERDRIVE]

The idea is great, and if run correctly could work. 
 

Unfortunately CSA has a very bad reputation with the average cyclist, hence so few comments are showing excitement, Ans rather think it as a money grabbing scam. I think a little bit of effort if convincing the masses that they are actually here not only to make money, put to promote the sport in every aspect and get more people to ride. And this can only be achieved with the right management. 
 

My invoice is in the mail for this insight, thanks 

[bleedToWin]

It's only possible to do 4 out of the 6 events. If it's your best 4 that count then this venture is likely dead in the water. If it's your best 3 that count then some JHB based riders will go do the Free State Challenge and the remaining 5 events will likely just have their normal participants that they would have had regardless. 

[Zeffer]

Yes of course best out of 3 - the rules will be released soon!

 

[sias]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:07 PM, Ozzie NL said:

 and their only aim is to generate funds to pay their own salaries .... Cleary Stay Away

Wait, what? We get paid? I'll have to go and talk to Ciska and Qondisa about this! I have not seen a single sent of payment!!! I thought everything was voluntary and our own time and expense? After working a full-time job and training and kids etc. etc. etc, just like everyone else?

Ozzie - you seem to be clued up with these matters: please give me a breakdown of the salaries paid to every CSA member so I can have a leg to stand on when I confront the team. I've been there for 5 years and I haven't seen a single cent. Zip, nada, zilch, efokoli, niks, aziko...

Edited June 23, 2023 by sias

[Spinnekop]

24 minutes ago, sias said:

Wait, what? We get paid? I'll have to go and talk to Ciska and Qondisa about this! I have not seen a single sent of payment!!! I thought everything was voluntary and our own time and expense? After working a full-time job and training and kids etc. etc. etc, just like everyone else?

Ozzie - you seem to be clued up with these matters: please give me a breakdown of the salaries paid to every CSA member so I can have a leg to stand on when I confront the team. I've been there for 5 years and I haven't seen a single cent. Zip, nada, zilch, efokoli, niks, aziko...

Well.
The financials were published previously and we had an opportunity to see what goes where.
This is no longer the case and the thought of "cloak and dagger" comes to mind.
But maybe that is just me, living in South Africa, expecting the worse.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Spinnekop

[sias]

8 minutes ago, Spinnekop said:

Well.
The financials were published previously and we had an opportunity to see what goes where.
This is no longer the case and the thought of "cloak and dagger" comes to mind.
But maybe that is just me, living in South Africa, expecting the worse.

I should have used the sarcasm font. 90% of us do this 100% voluntarily on our own free time and expenses. The executive and some office staff in Capetown do get paid as in any National organization. My province has suggested I get paid a stipend per month which I refused as we cannot afford it. So yeah, no-one is getting rich by working for CSA.

[Zeffer]

Guys were going of the topic here - we have announced a pilot road series of 6 races and we want to make it work - we have identified races and those EOs agreed to work with us.

We will publish the rules soon.

But please share ideas. Lets keep talking about how we make it work for all of us.

---------------------------------------------------

Which categories should be in the series?

Teams: elite/u23 men, elit/u23 women (apparantly we should not call the ladies), vets per age group

Individuals: Juniors, Elites/U23 men, women, Vet A, B, C and D men and women

 

[Spinnekop]

9 minutes ago, sias said:

I should have used the sarcasm font. 90% of us do this 100% voluntarily on our own free time and expenses. The executive and some office staff in Capetown do get paid as in any National organization. My province has suggested I get paid a stipend per month which I refused as we cannot afford it. So yeah, no-one is getting rich by working for CSA.

Dont doubt you.
I doubt the organization.

No one says you, or anyone is getting anything.
But someone is.  Millions.  
With ZERO visibility.

Show us that statements.  Easy.  Visible.

 

[Spinnekop]

1 minute ago, Zeffer said:

Guys were going of the topic here - we have announced a pilot road series of 6 races and we want to make it work - we have identified races and those EOs agreed to work with us.

We will publish the rules soon.

But please share ideas. Lets keep talking about how we make it work for all of us.

---------------------------------------------------

Which categories should be in the series?

Teams: elite/u23 men, elit/u23 women (apparantly we should not call the ladies), vets per age group

Individuals: Juniors, Elites/U23 men, women, Vet A, B, C and D men and women

 

How will seeding work?

Or is it "I pay CSA money for a license and get auto seeding because I am old" type events?

[Scalpel]

Thoughts that comes to mind regarding this is! Don't really care about anything where CSA is involved!

[Frosty]

On the topic of seeding, races should be obliged to submit race results to a central database, for every event/timing company to use, and not be done by each individual organization. 

Also have a permanent number for the year, and you race in the same category for the year. To get promoted to a higher category, you have to earn a certain number of points. 

Now I need to look for that beating a dead horse image.

[DroppedRider]

12 minutes ago, Zeffer said:

Guys were going of the topic here - we have announced a pilot road series of 6 races and we want to make it work - we have identified races and those EOs agreed to work with us.

We will publish the rules soon.

But please share ideas. Lets keep talking about how we make it work for all of us.

---------------------------------------------------

Which categories should be in the series?

Teams: elite/u23 men, elit/u23 women (apparantly we should not call the ladies), vets per age group

Individuals: Juniors, Elites/U23 men, women, Vet A, B, C and D men and women

 

I gave some ideas in the first post above. Would love if there is a Marketing Agency that can partner with this concept and push this aggressively - USA Crits style advertising on social media 

Financially speaking the A,B,C,D individuals are where the money is at. Look after this lot. Make them feel like Pro's. Get official category rankings so that you can work your way up batches properly.

Been cycling for a few years now. In my first year of cycling I went from D batch to A batch. Great for my ego but I would have liked to have upgraded my seeding slower maybe after at least doing 2 years or 7 or so races so that I would have got more experience. 

On the opposite side because riders are getting seeded so high from one race at Racetec you have Zwift only riders who do not have any group riding skills moving at 45 km/h in a stacked peloton. It's getting dangerous. (side note: I find it hilarious with Zwift riders who smash it up the hills but then get dropped descending because no practise of that indoors)

 

[Danger Dassie]

1 hour ago, sias said:

Wait, what? We get paid? I'll have to go and talk to Ciska and Qondisa about this! I have not seen a single sent of payment!!! I thought everything was voluntary and our own time and expense? After working a full-time job and training and kids etc. etc. etc, just like everyone else?

Ozzie - you seem to be clued up with these matters: please give me a breakdown of the salaries paid to every CSA member so I can have a leg to stand on when I confront the team. I've been there for 5 years and I haven't seen a single cent. Zip, nada, zilch, efokoli, niks, aziko...

I think much of this perception comes from the fact that a lot of funds have been mismanaged in the past. Particularly murky around the former MD Mike Bradley, and was stated as much by the organisation itself when he was removed/resigned. There’s a lot of that dead wood around still with strong conflicts of interest. So the reputation damage shouldn’t be underestimated.
Imho I think Ciska Austin had an exceptionally difficult time leading the organisation out of a storm into the black again. The lack of openness and comms though doesn’t really help though, and hurts the efforts of those making the time to volunteer their services. 
 

That aside, I personally am glad to see some efforts and ideas around a national road series. Hope to see it grow beyond a pilot phase and tap into the grassroots talent. 

[bleedToWin]

34 minutes ago, Zeffer said:

But please share ideas. Lets keep talking about how we make it work for all of us.

1. A league where best n-out-of-N races counts towards your total only really works where it is generally and reasonably accepted that all riders will endeavour to do all N events. It allows for missing an event or getting a non-result due to unforeseen circumstances. Designing a league with the intention that the participants (almost) never race directly against each other detracts from the value of winning the league.
    
2. Oudsthoorn is only slightly closer to CPT than Durban is to JHB. Sure, it's in the same province, but it's not an easy or cheap one to work into the schedule, and then you're still only on two races. Durban would be race of choice #4 for a JHB based rider and most would not bother with it since the Free State Challenge is reasonably easy and cheap to attend and fulfills the required 3 races. Presumably the primary idea of the league is to incentivise serious riders and teams to travel to a few out of province races a year. The pilot is however set up so that the one province where teams have funds do not really need to travel. The pilot will thus not give insight into their willingness (ability) to travel, and only to that of CPT riders.
    
3. Probably too late in the planning for this one, but anyway:
   Another objective of the pilot might be to test whether a league increases hype and participation and carries value for spectators. I would have dropped Durban and included One Tonner in Stellenbosch. Have a separate North league of 3 events and South league of 3 events and all events count towards your total. This would actually give insight into whether a national league in 2024 could work on these fronts.

 

[Zebra]

12 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

1. A league where best n-out-of-N races counts towards your total only really works where it is generally and reasonably accepted that all riders will endeavour to do all N events. It allows for missing an event or getting a non-result due to unforeseen circumstances. Designing a league with the intention that the participants (almost) never race directly against each other detracts from the value of winning the league.
    
2. Oudsthoorn is only slightly closer to CPT than Durban is to JHB. Sure, it's in the same province, but it's not an easy or cheap one to work into the schedule, and then you're still only on two races. Durban would be race of choice #4 for a JHB based rider and most would not bother with it since the Free State Challenge is reasonably easy and cheap to attend and fulfills the required 3 races. Presumably the primary idea of the league is to incentivise serious riders and teams to travel to a few out of province races a year. The pilot is however set up so that the one province where teams have funds do not really need to travel. The pilot will thus not give insight into their willingness (ability) to travel, and only to that of CPT riders.
    
3. Probably too late in the planning for this one, but anyway:
   Another objective of the pilot might be to test whether a league increases hype and participation and carries value for spectators. I would have dropped Durban and included One Tonner in Stellenbosch. Have a separate North league of 3 events and South league of 3 events and all events count towards your total. This would actually give insight into whether a national league in 2024 could work on these fronts.

 

Detailed, well thought-out reply, well done.