Power meter on MTB?

[Frosty]

I don’t have a PM on my MTB and Gravel/Cross, and I’m able to pace my efforts on both bikes sufficiently enough to know when it’s too easy/hard. It comes from learning how to “feel” what’s hard, very hard, easy and somewhere in between. But it takes time to learn.

Majority of my weekday riding is indoors (because it works for me) and as a roadie (>100,000km recorded), where I have power meters on both road bikes as well as the smart trainer.

Do I need it on my other bikes? No
Would it be nice to have it? Of course.

[PregoRoll]

Go crank based, 

steer very, very far away from pedal based PMs on a MTB. 

 

[DieselnDust]

48 minutes ago, no calves said:

Just my 2c

 

I am 107kg.. so i dont race but i do train. I am no tech or number geek.

 

I have a PM on al 3 my bikes, Gravel, Road and mtb. I find that its the only way i can get comparable data over all 3 bikes ASWELL as from my indoor trainer. Being heavier i do rely on power a lot as to not over exert myself on races. 

 

On the race to the sea I had a IF of 1.3 at WP1, 0.97 at WP2. at WP3 i told my wife somewhere i am going to pop as this was not sustainable, low and behold 10km after WP3 i popped so hard i had to walk anything over 8% gradient the rest of the way. Iff i did not have a powermeter i would have assumed i am flying the first 80km and probably blamed my pop on eating or something else, but i had the data infront of me telling me whats happening the whole time.

 

Structured training is also the only way to go and then you will need a powermeter. 

 

Iff you have anymore questions drop me a message. would gladly tell you how PLEBS incorportate powermeters into my daily cycling life.

I’m not sure if this a ride report or an advert for how not to use a power meter…?!

an IF of 1.3 (I assume you rode the 164km?) means you klap led that first climb at vo2 max and then settled back into threshold for the mostly descent to WP1. You should have been gauging your effort for that first climb.

or your threshold setting is way off. By wp2 you’re still at IF 0.97!!! Something is very wrong here.

a power meter or no power meter isn’t going to fix poor ride strategy and that’s what i see in the information above.

Pacing in an endurance event can be achieved with a HRM also. Heck even RPE can work if you know what you’re doing.

I agree that structured training is the way to go but structured does not mean that a power meter is the only tool to monitor progress. It does have some advantages but it also has disadvantages 

PS: I’m not against power meters, I have one on each bike too. I’m just fairly objective about it and recognise it’s not a necessary solution for every workout 

[babse]

1 hour ago, no calves said:

Just my 2c

 

I am 107kg.. so i dont race but i do train. I am no tech or number geek.

 

I have a PM on al 3 my bikes, Gravel, Road and mtb. I find that its the only way i can get comparable data over all 3 bikes ASWELL as from my indoor trainer. Being heavier i do rely on power a lot as to not over exert myself on races. 

 

On the race to the sea I had a IF of 1.3 at WP1, 0.97 at WP2. at WP3 i told my wife somewhere i am going to pop as this was not sustainable, low and behold 10km after WP3 i popped so hard i had to walk anything over 8% gradient the rest of the way. Iff i did not have a powermeter i would have assumed i am flying the first 80km and probably blamed my pop on eating or something else, but i had the data infront of me telling me whats happening the whole time.

 

Structured training is also the only way to go and then you will need a powermeter. 

 

Iff you have anymore questions drop me a message. would gladly tell you how PLEBS incorportate powermeters into my daily cycling life.

IF of 1.3 until WP1....that is seriously impressive (or not correct or your FTP setting is waaay too low).

 

I know during races, if im close to 0.9 IF, i wont survive longer than 90mins (XCO). Any road race, MTB marathon, im averaging 0.7-0.8 depending.

[DieselnDust]

An IF of 1.0 would be a 1 hr maximal effort or an ftp test for some context. If anyone has done one they will know how much it hurts

[no calves]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I’m not sure if this a ride report or an advert for how not to use a power meter…?!

an IF of 1.3 (I assume you rode the 164km?) means you klap led that first climb at vo2 max and then settled back into threshold for the mostly descent to WP1. You should have been gauging your effort for that first climb.

or your threshold setting is way off. By wp2 you’re still at IF 0.97!!! Something is very wrong here.

a power meter or no power meter isn’t going to fix poor ride strategy and that’s what i see in the information above.

Pacing in an endurance event can be achieved with a HRM also. Heck even RPE can work if you know what you’re doing.

I agree that structured training is the way to go but structured does not mean that a power meter is the only tool to monitor progress. It does have some advantages but it also has disadvantages 

PS: I’m not against power meters, I have one on each bike too. I’m just fairly objective about it and recognise it’s not a necessary solution for every workout 

Thanks for the tongue in cheek reply....

 

I think the 1.3 was down to more than 1 factor. 

1: have not done a FTP test in a few weeks.

2: way overexerted myself on the first hour

3 My garmin did want to update my FTP after the ride by a fair bit.

 

The message i was trying to convey in my "race report" was that a PM can be more that just a training tool. Its also a pacing tool and a means as to "predict" how you will feel down the line based on current data.

 

as for RPE... my body type is already a 10 on the RPE scale and that's just when standing still. So i really need to do number watching to get to the finish not hammered. 

 

I did old hermon on the mtb also with a PM and tried to keep things to 2.5w/kg up Bainskloof as i was coming off a sick spell. on a RPE scale it felt like an 8, but the watts was within range so i finished with some left in the talk.

[Zebra]

On the subject of Power meters - I do not currently HAVE one, but have been reading up/advertising FOR one for the better part of a month...

Some info you MAY find useful:

there are LOTS for crank-based (mostly STAGES) for sale on Bike Hub...mostly R3K-R4K-R5K price band...

Not so many in 175mm, which is my crank length of choice on 3 bikes (Vintage Road, MTB an eMTB...) I want crank-based since all 3 bikes are Egg Beaters pedals, so pedal based not an option (for me...), AND MTB is better with crank PM over pedal-PM...

@ChrisF kindly donated to me an older, working Garmin Edge 520, so, 15 years after many mates started 'training' with Power, and since the Edge has that data window, feel it would be instructive to incorporate Power WITH HR...

My MTB, has dual wheel-sets, MTB a-n-d road; PM is for MTB ROAD thus I want to use I want the STAGES power-meter, not pedal-based...)

NOW: even with the services of Omnico (importing Agents of STAGES, for advice) and a bike shop, acquiring the right Stages is ....complex!

Basically, once you have settled on the correct crank LENGTH PM you need (in my case, 175mm), THEN you need to do  - in my case - HEAPS of research...

for e.g.: I have a 2015 Spez Epic Comp Carbon, with a no-name - and I mean NO name - crank, which turns out it was made by SRAM for Spez, but not branded SRAM, only crank-length and a serial number stamped in...

After getting Omnico to IDENTIFY the crank, it was on to searching for a BB30, or DUB (???) crank, having the correct width for my BB; meaning that say a STAGES Cannondale BB30, sold WITH spindle, would / could fit, but would then need spacers, possibly....maybe...

Turns out Omnico had ONE spindle left for my particular bike, and then if I can buy the right STAGES, it would then fit...

Chap on here was selling a well-priced STAGES in 175mm,, he had not fitted it after buying in 2nd hand, asked him to TEST it, and he got no readings!!

So back to the drawing board - for me - JUST alerting you that it seems more complex - by a way - than simply swapping out a crank, unless maybe if you have say XT/XTR, possibly? Unsure!

Any assistance appreciated! And good luck with YOUR search, 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, no calves said:

Thanks for the tongue in cheek reply....

 

I think the 1.3 was down to more than 1 factor. 

1: have not done a FTP test in a few weeks.

2: way overexerted myself on the first hour

3 My garmin did want to update my FTP after the ride by a fair bit.

 

The message i was trying to convey in my "race report" was that a PM can be more that just a training tool. Its also a pacing tool and a means as to "predict" how you will feel down the line based on current data.

 

as for RPE... my body type is already a 10 on the RPE scale and that's just when standing still. So i really need to do number watching to get to the finish not hammered. 

 

I did old hermon on the mtb also with a PM and tried to keep things to 2.5w/kg up Bainskloof as i was coming off a sick spell. on a RPE scale it felt like an 8, but the watts was within range so i finished with some left in the talk.

Definitely it is a great pacing tool if you use the correct metrics as you suggested. IF and calories consumed are critical here. 

[cadenceblur]

4 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Definitely it is a great pacing tool if you use the correct metrics as you suggested. IF and calories consumed are critical here. 

Accuracy of calories consumed though?

Something that always bothers me

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Zebra said:

On the subject of Power meters - I do not currently HAVE one, but have been reading up/advertising FOR one for the better part of a month...

Some info you MAY find useful:

there are LOTS for crank-based (mostly STAGES) for sale on Bike Hub...mostly R3K-R4K-R5K price band...

Not so many in 175mm, which is my crank length of choice on 3 bikes (Vintage Road, MTB an eMTB...) I want crank-based since all 3 bikes are Egg Beaters pedals, so pedal based not an option (for me...), AND MTB is better with crank PM over pedal-PM...

@ChrisF kindly donated to me an older, working Garmin Edge 520, so, 15 years after many mates started 'training' with Power, and since the Edge has that data window, feel it would be instructive to incorporate Power WITH HR...

My MTB, has dual wheel-sets, MTB a-n-d road; PM is for MTB ROAD thus I want to use I want the STAGES power-meter, not pedal-based...)

NOW: even with the services of Omnico (importing Agents of STAGES, for advice) and a bike shop, acquiring the right Stages is ....complex!

Basically, once you have settled on the correct crank LENGTH PM you need (in my case, 175mm), THEN you need to do  - in my case - HEAPS of research...

for e.g.: I have a 2015 Spez Epic Comp Carbon, with a no-name - and I mean NO name - crank, which turns out it was made by SRAM for Spez, but not branded SRAM, only crank-length and a serial number stamped in...

After getting Omnico to IDENTIFY the crank, it was on to searching for a BB30, or DUB (???) crank, having the correct width for my BB; meaning that say a STAGES Cannondale BB30, sold WITH spindle, would / could fit, but would then need spacers, possibly....maybe...

Turns out Omnico had ONE spindle left for my particular bike, and then if I can buy the right STAGES, it would then fit...

Chap on here was selling a well-priced STAGES in 175mm,, he had not fitted it after buying in 2nd hand, asked him to TEST it, and he got no readings!!

So back to the drawing board - for me - JUST alerting you that it seems more complex - by a way - than simply swapping out a crank, unless maybe if you have say XT/XTR, possibly? Unsure!

Any assistance appreciated! And good luck with YOUR search, 

If this is a made for Spez SRAM crank then it should have a spider retained by 3 M4 torx head bolts of about 8mm length the. It should be able to fit a power2max or other similar spider based power meter 

[Zebra]

6 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

If this is a made for Spez SRAM crank then it should have a spider retained by 3 M4 torx head bolts of about 8mm length the. It should be able to fit a power2max or other similar spider based power meter 

thanks, was unaware, will write down details, and re-start my search....appreciated!

("...spider based power meter...")

Chris

Edited September 13, 2023 by Zebra

[DieselnDust]

6 hours ago, cadenceblur said:

Accuracy of calories consumed though?

Something that always bothers me

Not terribly accurate though as it just uses  a formula base on HR , vo2 max, mass and age. 
but it does provide an indication of how much you should be eating based on what it thinks you've consumed.

It not a straight in out. you can see more or less what you burned but your body likely cant absorb the same amount so again, with some help from a dietician and or sports scientist they can help you figure out what to eat and how much based on your exertion

Edited September 13, 2023 by DieselnDust

[JacquesJ]

Any thoughts on the Sigeyi power meters?

[Marcv]

I think alot of valuable stuff has already been covered. I have a power meter on both my MTB's, 4iiii on one and a stages gen 3 on the other, both have been really good and the local service has also been great on both.

We have debated this item in our little riding group and come to a simple conclusion, if you like data and analysing things you will most likely enjoy a PM. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Marcv

[DieselnDust]

6 hours ago, Zebra said:

thanks, was unaware, will write down details, and re-start my search....appreciated!

("...spider based power meter...")

Chris

Power2Max NG eco SRAM

SRM (XXXXpensiiiiiiiiiiveeeeeee)

Xcadey (newer Chinese brand that seems to get some good reviews. Longevity is not something I can or will comment on.

Sigeyi Axo - Powermeter City sells these so I'm guessing that they have tested it extensively as they tend to not sell junk.

These are your best options. I would opt for the Power2max everyday because its backed up by BicyclePower trading who are an upstanding crowd of passionate folk. They can repair aanything on the unit that is repairable. With the others you're pretty much on your own. 

I have not mentioned Quarq because it uses an 8 bolt mount that is only available on very new SRAM Transmission cranks and on some OEM SRAM crank. Most OEM cranks used the 3 bolt mount.

FSA also had a spider based unit which was basically a Power2Max.

[mecheng89]

18 hours ago, cadenceblur said:

Accuracy of calories consumed though?

Something that always bothers me

Should be calories expended. Calories consumed would be energy bars, hydration etc, but I understand what you mean.

Wattage is the SI unit for work (W), or Joules (energy) per second, using built is strain gauges to measure the amount of physical distortion in the strain gauges, it calculates the amound of FORCE on the crank. Force times distance, probably the distance from the BB to the pedal spindle centre equals work. 4.184 kilojoules is equal to 1 calorie (kcal) of energy. No brainer why the PM can more accurately estimate the calories expended than say a HRM.