Power meter on MTB?

[+ Ryperd +]

Background:

I used to train for a race/event - that was the motivation. The 2022 Attakwas broke that. 🤪 

I'm no racing snake. In fact, I am overweight and unfit. Made a concerted effort to drop weight from Feb this year, and am down from 113kg to 97kg. Want to drop down to 94-95kg. The last 2+kgs are stubborn! I'm 51 years, 1.88m.

I've fallen back in love to just ride and not "train" because you have to ride a race/event, etc. The idea is to ride as often as possible, but add structure. Thus not just plotting along, but add hills, technical, etc. I have a good idea what to do based on my 2021 Sani2C plan from Absolute Motion. Back then I used an old spinning bike for indoor, later upgraded to a Wahoo Kickr 4. Got used to "knowing" my power output, and it was used to fine tune the plan. Idid not follw the plan... was lazy.
 

Current:

The last two weeks I managed to get back onto the bike on ave 3 times a week, clocking 200km. Not much, but for me a HUGE improvement. The motivation is BACK!!

Through the years I've noticed what cadence range works for me, where my hear rate should be and to pace my effort.

I've entered for the Sondela 3-day mtb race end November (will be my 3rd one, as I enjoy the weekend with friends and family), then in 2024 the Ride the Karoo (3rd one) and the Sani again. I want to be fit, strong and stable in terms of my weight before end November, carry that through December and be ready for 2024. Normally I only started some base work in December, but the intensity was slow and low. It's December. 🫣

The question: 

A power meter on the bike. Does it add real value, or is it more nice to have stats on the Garmin app and Strava? If it adds real value, can a mere mortal use it or is it better to get a coach?

And last question - which is better? The crank arm type, the pedal type? This is an expensive purchase, I don't want to waste money or buy the wrong item. 

Any good advice will be appreciated.

Edited September 12, 2023 by + Ryperd +
Grammer

[cadenceblur]

If you still have kickr, having PM when outside will complete the picture for you ( in terms of both your outdoor and indoor rides)and can also help you gauge efforts on long climbs etc. 

Look at a crank arm option, the pedals are pricey and in my mind risky on a MTB. 

All the best with your journey and well done on the progress thus far!

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, + Ryperd + said:

Background:

I used to train for a race/event - that was the motivation. The 2022 Attakwas broke that. 🤪 

I'm no racing snake. In fact, I am overweight and unfit. Made a concerted effort to drop weight from Feb this year, and am down from 113kg to 97kg. Want to drop down to 94-95kg. The last 2+kgs are stubborn! I'm 51 years, 1.88m.

I've fallen back in love to just ride and not "train" because you have to ride a race/event, etc. The idea is to ride as often as possible, but add structure. Thus not just plotting along, but add hills, technical, etc. I have a good idea what to do based on my 2021 Sani2C plan from Absolute Motion. Back then I used an old spinning bike for indoor, later upgraded to a Wahoo Kickr 4. Got used to "knowing" my power output, and it was used to fine tune the plan. Idid not follw the plan... was lazy.
 

Current:

The last two weeks I managed to get back onto the bike on ave 3 times a week, clocking 200km. Not much, but for me a HUGE improvement. The motivation is BACK!!

Through the years I've noticed what cadence range works for me, where my hear rate should be and to pace my effort.

I've entered for the Sondela 3-day mtb race end November (will be my 3rd one, as I enjoy the weekend with friends and family), then in 2024 the Ride the Karoo (3rd one) and the Sani again. I want to be fit, strong and stable in terms of my weight before end November, carry that through December and be ready for 2024. Normally I only started some base work in December, but the intensity was slow and low. It's December. 🫣

The question: 

A power meter on the bike. Does it add real value, or is it more nice to have stats on the Garmin app and Strava? If it adds real value, can a mere mortal use it or is it better to get a coach?

And last question - which is better? The crank arm type, the pedal type? This is an expensive purchase, I don't want to waste money or buy the wrong item. 

Any good advice will be appreciated.

firstly its admirable that you are wanting to get fit again ad are committed to this journey.

 

secondly, your target weight is still in the overweight range for your height. You should be looking to drop to around  88kg. 

You can cycle till the cows come home but your current weight will not be sustainable if you do not get your eating habits right.

The first person you need to engage is a dietician. Get an eating plan sorted out for your physiology.

Then having a coach will be helpful if not essential to help guide you on meeting those goals. Its no just about pedaling, its about motivation and seeing the bigger picture.

Then lastly, the power meter on the bike is a nice to have. However, having the indoor trainer with a power meter is already the better option. Its better to conduct the high intensity workouts on the IDT with the PM and then the longer endurance rides can be conducted with HR. Training peaks will still give you a HrTSS score. If you want to get a PM on your MTB I would consider Power2Max or Stages. Quarq is also great but requires a 8 bolt compatible crank set from SRAM or you buy the whole unit Crank+PM spider. 

The pm on the mtb is trimmings but if it motivates you then why not

 

recap:

1) dietician

2) coach

3) get a plan together + Coach

4) use your IDT

5) PM on the bike if you want

[cadenceblur]

88kg at 1.88? 
That sounds very thin or perhaps a purely cycling related weight vs height calc? 
 Need to understand his frame and current body fat / body composition etc. and also what is sustainable. 
I’m 1.87 and at 95kg wouldn’t classify myself as overweight- all relative i guess. 
would definitely be faster going uphill but not for me..
Agree on dietician and coach 

Edited September 12, 2023 by cadenceblur

[V18]

88kg at 1.88m? What is that? A musculoskeletal system for ants?! 

When I was 10% body fat in university I used to weigh 112kg at 1.90m. Obviously more multisport oriented back then. 

(fyi, now I'm just propper sedentary/poor diet fat.)

BMI is a bit of an archaic way to look at things. The medical industry is now focusing more and more on frame appropriate lean muscle mass as a predictor of long term health. 

Take BMI with a grain of salt. Rather look at lean muscle bulk. Miskien het hy die Saterdag kaalvoet in SPAR kuite en bulletjie arms? 

[+ Ryperd +]

Thanks all

Some important info I omitted from original post.

- I sold the Wahoo in 2022, as I was extremely bored riding inside.

- I am following a good diet, and am continuously watching what I eat and drink.

- I am a skinny fat person, so under 95ish kg I look terrible. 

Thanks for the input thus far. I will look at getting a coach early next year before the Sani (maybe use Absolute Motion again, but the more "involved" option?).

Back to my question re power meters - are they worth it? 

[babse]

They definitely worth it if you use it correctly. IMO when training, PMs are as handy as you'll get (specially when you'll be working with a coach). Makes training more efficiently "easier", if that makes sense.

That said, training without a PM doesn't make training nul or ineffective.

I've come to enjoy the power data crunching from training and racing. 

[Murrob]

Personally I have on both mtb, road bike and an indoor trainer. If you were training on the road with your mtb (I have the qaurq) then sure, actual trail however it is really hard to maintain constant power, so more just interesting data. Road bike, different story, I’ve got the Garmin dual side pedals which while nuts with their pricing (insert discovery or momentum for better price) provide far more useful data for and road cycling in general allows you to really focus on pedal stroke and technique which the pedals can then confirm. I would only do the power pedals on a road bike, mtb I reckon you are one pedals strike away from tears. Indoor training is really just for recovery spins for me at this stage and the power allows me to maintain a consistent level for as long as I can stand (about 80 minutes is my limit)

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, + Ryperd + said:

Thanks all

Some important info I omitted from original post.

- I sold the Wahoo in 2022, as I was extremely bored riding inside.

- I am following a good diet, and am continuously watching what I eat and drink.

- I am a skinny fat person, so under 95ish kg I look terrible. 

Thanks for the input thus far. I will look at getting a coach early next year before the Sani (maybe use Absolute Motion again, but the more "involved" option?).

Back to my question re power meters - are they worth it? 

Ya look I just looked at BMi for a ball park weight at BMi 25 (which is the absolute high end of normal). Hence I also said first thing , go see a dietician. They will do all the appropriate measurements and determine a healthy goal weight. The 94 target just seems awfully South African you know - I want to be fit but still show the bike who is baas. 
 

power meters are only as effective as the person analysing the data it gathers. 
min a Mtb you will never hold the narrow wattage range some auto generated training plans will split out. Knowing how to use the data from the meter is the most important part of the meter. I hear a lot of lekker stories about how power meters make a better cyclist. All a load of 🐐💩.

its the analysis and what to do from there that makes you better while still having a day job, work and family stress, dietary influences etc etc. 

tes they have their value but even a builders level is useless in the hands someone who uses it as a ruler. A line can be drawn with far cheaper tools.

I’m trying out some Ai apps where they follow your intensity and then suggest workouts for the next day or week. The power meter obviously feeds that algorithm but Ai doesn’t know how stressed you are or well you slept, or ate unless you feed it that data as well. The old saying garbage in = garbage out comes to mind. Dietician and coach are far better investments right now. 
a coach who can’t work with hr and an idt isn’t a coach. Those are just tools. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by DieselnDust

[Lynskey]

I am 188 and 75. It is a massive struggle to maintain this.

On power meters. Actually for me on cycling. I do not use anything at all apart from the bike and how I feel. I am not interested in any of that. I ride and ride as to how I feel and the time available. I believe in diet and ride as much as you can. If you want to be a good cyclist you need to ride. I also don't have the money for all the bells and whistles. I just ride. I watch the scale and that keeps my weight down. I am very hard on the eating. 

I believe if you are happy you will achieve your goals. Pressure does not help. Once you enjoy the journey it all starts to work. Best of luck and keep us posted. You can do it. Just put your mind to it.

[Mamil]

I have a 4iiii crank power meter on MTB. It hasn't missed a beat in 4 years.

Power meter is a game changer for training and for pacing.

Oh and I'm 1.9m tall and weigh 94kg and I could stand to lose 4 kg but I'm a "yes please I will have a second helping" kinda guy. 

[+ Ryperd +]

My take so far is to loose some more kg, eat right (use a dietician/diet plan to ensure correct weight and eating), drink less beer (eish...😅), enjoy the ride (get a coach who understand my goals and my why).

A PM is a useful tool, but an expensive tool. Without the knowledge to interpret the data, it is a nice to have, rather than an essential tool.

But keep the advice coming. Maybe we can educate more people. 🤙

[lechatnoir]

14 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

firstly its admirable that you are wanting to get fit again ad are committed to this journey.

 

secondly, your target weight is still in the overweight range for your height. You should be looking to drop to around  88kg. 

<snip>

I'm curious how you're able to make this determination without seeing the OP. Please fill us in on the details

[Ozzie NL]

1 hour ago, + Ryperd + said:

My take so far is to loose some more kg, eat right (use a dietician/diet plan to ensure correct weight and eating), drink less beer (eish...😅), enjoy the ride (get a coach who understand my goals and my why).

A PM is a useful tool, but an expensive tool. Without the knowledge to interpret the data, it is a nice to have, rather than an essential tool.

But keep the advice coming. Maybe we can educate more people. 🤙

I'm with Murrob. As you have to focus on the trail which demands power at certain points, you cannot really ride within powerzones as often required for structured training. So for off road  MTB it is mainly interesting data afterwards as far as I am concerned

On tar  (whether MTB or roadie), it is a different story. There you can ride at specific power levels much more easily which makes sense for training.

[DieselnDust]

(Short answer) That's the upper end of the "Normal" range in the BMI calculation for a male of that height.

(read on for further anecdotes)

The lower end of "Normal" range for a 188cm tall male is roughly 71kg. Normal range is from BMI 19 to 25. This is pretty wide weight range that accounts for build. This is all available on any health website, even Discovery preaches it.

Yes yes  yes there is the "big boned" argument and that's mostly accounted for in the range. What isn't accounted for is how OP's body metabolises nutrients and what HIS Natural normal should be which is where the bit about consulting a Dietician first.  He said 94 is ideal which no matter how you spin it is still above normal. It may not be unhealthy but it most likely still is so consult a professional in this regard. Many people >25 have blood pressure, cholesterol, pre diabetes etc issues they they simply shrug off and live with. Yes there are healthy people >25 too <have to cover that in bikehub or it creates an alternate time line>. For all  I know he could be a body builder and will break a bike by looking at it angry. His description of self doesn't mention that though and as you knowing if someone is a body builder is the same as if they are Vegan or went to Bischops

I see lots of okes with lofty goals in their 50's telling me they're a good weight when in fact they're clearly overweight and have convinced themselves that they're ok because they simply have to cram that last beer in as they're typing sixty60 memes after the Bokke rugby match.

It seems discussing weight with men is more sensitive than discussing it with women.....(but maybe less dangerous)

I'll use myself as an example; my dietician tells me 70kg is a good sustainable weight for me which put me at a BMI of 23.7

I feel 22 is good for racing or just riding a stage race comfortably. I've been there and yes it better for racing but I can't sustain it with my love of Fritos, ghost pops and Lindt dark chocolate oh and Kristens ice cream...hmmmmmmmm....

Lets try to remember that pot belly is not a build..... 

 

 

<heads off the get the popcorn pot heated>

[no calves]

Just my 2c

 

I am 107kg.. so i dont race but i do train. I am no tech or number geek.

 

I have a PM on al 3 my bikes, Gravel, Road and mtb. I find that its the only way i can get comparable data over all 3 bikes ASWELL as from my indoor trainer. Being heavier i do rely on power a lot as to not over exert myself on races. 

 

On the race to the sea I had a IF of 1.3 at WP1, 0.97 at WP2. at WP3 i told my wife somewhere i am going to pop as this was not sustainable, low and behold 10km after WP3 i popped so hard i had to walk anything over 8% gradient the rest of the way. Iff i did not have a powermeter i would have assumed i am flying the first 80km and probably blamed my pop on eating or something else, but i had the data infront of me telling me whats happening the whole time.

 

Structured training is also the only way to go and then you will need a powermeter. 

 

Iff you have anymore questions drop me a message. would gladly tell you how PLEBS incorportate powermeters into my daily cycling life.