SRAM launch new powerful Maven brakes

[Hairy]

 

[Shebeen]

someone is going to have to explain the pun to me.

[V18]

About boiling points of mineral oil vs dot fluid. Whilst I appreciate that viscosity of both these fluids may change with higher temperatures... Mtb brakes never reach close to even the boiling point of water. Think that's why that one brand than I can't think of right now made brakes using water as hydraulic fluid. Works just "fine". 

Yes I know water isn't friendly to rubber, metal and some polymers. But still. Boiling points don't really matter for mtb disc brakes. Unless I'm missing some physics/chemistry. Stick to non hygroscopic liquids and you'll be OK. 

Even better trp spyke! They use cable!😜

[Super Sywurm]

Can the bike industry stop bringing out new items I want but don't need!?

[Shebeen]

15 minutes ago, V18 said:

About boiling points of mineral oil vs dot fluid. Whilst I appreciate that viscosity of both these fluids may change with higher temperatures... Mtb brakes never reach close to even the boiling point of water. Think that's why that one brand than I can't think of right now made brakes using water as hydraulic fluid. Works just "fine". 

how hot do they actually get, do you have this data? All i know it's hot enough for some of them to put fins on them for cooling (or is that just to look cool?)

rotors? yes. well

 

 

[V18]

The disc temps are much hotter than the hydraulic fluid level. 

I think tolerances of the calipers are better if you keep the temps stable. Hence dins etc. 

[Headshot]

3 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

Just like all of us thinking that only 0.01% of people could justify the ZEB when it was originally released?

That's still 0.01% of the SA MTB community

[Headshot]

31 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

how hot do they actually get, do you have this data? All i know it's hot enough for some of them to put fins on them for cooling (or is that just to look cool?)

rotors? yes. well

 

 

I prefer real world testing like when i crashed and the hot rotor lay against my leg and left a lekker Shimano burn mark. 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, V18 said:

About boiling points of mineral oil vs dot fluid. Whilst I appreciate that viscosity of both these fluids may change with higher temperatures... Mtb brakes never reach close to even the boiling point of water. Think that's why that one brand than I can't think of right now made brakes using water as hydraulic fluid. Works just "fine". 

Yes I know water isn't friendly to rubber, metal and some polymers. But still. Boiling points don't really matter for mtb disc brakes. Unless I'm missing some physics/chemistry. Stick to non hygroscopic liquids and you'll be OK. 

Even better trp spyke! They use cable!😜

Oil temperature at the piston gets hot enough to oxidise the oil. Boiling matters very much! 
Brake callipers are better at heat management than they were 20 years ago but the amount of material is still much the same (weight hasn’t shifted much)

[NotSoBigBen]

Genuine question @DieselnDust and other techies, other than maybe downhillers, extreme riders and proper XC riders, should any of us average Joe riders concern ourselves with boiling fluids?

[robbybzgo]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

I prefer real world testing like when i crashed and the hot rotor lay against my leg and left a lekker Shimano burn mark. 

Consider that an honour brand (maybe most dedicated brand ambassadors should get one).

Or a gang tat(oo) depending on how rad it looks.

Your choice...

[Headshot]

1 minute ago, BaGearA said:

Boling water can hurt so stay away from that one.

 

Mineral oil , bad for the system and oil. Flush asap but you still have some decent working service out of the brakes. 

 

Dot , very bad. Because it absorbs water and if it has already then the steam will rise to the top ( your lever ) because it has a boiling point so much lower than the dot and suddenly there will be jack out of your lever , as in nothing. 

 

The above scenarios are super hard to create , even if your brake oil is more than 10 years old. SO don't stress about it too much , regular maintenance on a modern system will give heaps of reliability and decent performance be it dot or mineral based.  

Agreed, but only if the levers are properly made and my Guides were awful with sticky levers because of poor quality pistons (yes I know they've fixed the problem since) but the other k@k thing was how the fluid started stripping the finish off the paint on the levers despite being very careful about washing them off. Poor quality like this put me off SRAM brakes for good.

[NotSoBigBen]

9 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Boling water can hurt so stay away from that one.

 

Mineral oil , bad for the system and oil. Flush asap but you still have some decent working service out of the brakes. 

 

Dot , very bad. Because it absorbs water and if it has already then the steam will rise to the top ( your lever ) because it has a boiling point so much lower than the dot and suddenly there will be jack out of your lever , as in nothing. 

 

The above scenarios are super hard to create , even if your brake oil is more than 10 years old. SO don't stress about it too much , regular maintenance on a modern system will give heaps of reliability and decent performance be it dot or mineral based.  

Hence my question, I have more than one brake set that has not been bled since the year dot and still work fine. Bearing in mind I only have from the 'other' manufacturer and notwithstanding the fact I clearly don't stress them to that point! 

[dave303e]

So on most of the motorbikes you always have a heat insulator between the pad and the brake caliper/piston. I have boiled far to many rear brakes on offroad motorbikes. It is one of the worst thing to happen when you really need your breaks and they just fade or the pedal/lever loses all pressure. MTB calipers never have that insulator so I am always weary. My concern with it is if you need to bleed brakes in a hurry and can't find Shimano or another good mineral oil and all of a sudden without knowing it you are putting in an oil that boils at 2/3rds of the manufacturers oils boiling point and then expecting it to perform. Motorex is one of the higher boiling point mineral oils, it boils 120dec C hotter than the Magura mineral oil. 

You put in any DOT5,1 and you know the minimum boiling point is exactly the same through any brand you can get your hands on in a rush. Also you can walk into midas/autozone/mica/chamberlains and get brake fluid. As soon as you need mineral oil for brakes you are going to get torn a fresh one by a bicycle or motorbike specialty brand and supplier. Shimano mineral oil is nearly R140/liter more expensive than a good motul dot 5,1 fluid.

[Headshot]

35 minutes ago, dave303e said:

So on most of the motorbikes you always have a heat insulator between the pad and the brake caliper/piston. I have boiled far to many rear brakes on offroad motorbikes. It is one of the worst thing to happen when you really need your breaks and they just fade or the pedal/lever loses all pressure. MTB calipers never have that insulator so I am always weary. My concern with it is if you need to bleed brakes in a hurry and can't find Shimano or another good mineral oil and all of a sudden without knowing it you are putting in an oil that boils at 2/3rds of the manufacturers oils boiling point and then expecting it to perform. Motorex is one of the higher boiling point mineral oils, it boils 120dec C hotter than the Magura mineral oil. 

You put in any DOT5,1 and you know the minimum boiling point is exactly the same through any brand you can get your hands on in a rush. Also you can walk into midas/autozone/mica/chamberlains and get brake fluid. As soon as you need mineral oil for brakes you are going to get torn a fresh one by a bicycle or motorbike specialty brand and supplier. Shimano mineral oil is nearly R140/liter more expensive than a good motul dot 5,1 fluid.

I think you're overthinking it on the MTB side. I use some french hydraulic mineral oil in my Shimano's with no noticeable side effects - just good braking and no fade.  I do abuse my back brake a bit. You can click on takealot and order some of the automotive quality mineral oil at under R200 p/l and it will be with you in 3 days. 

 

Sorry its now R202.00 https://www.takealot.com/total-lhm-plus-hydraulic-mineral-liquid-1l/PLID72926639?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7zwsNx_Klka_opoQabXyCtkgqNzBF1zwPXdxCZc4jHLmt5o9ap9mswaAonhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited February 23, 2024 by Headshot

[The Ouzo]

19 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I think you're overthinking it on the MTB side. I use some french hydraulic mineral oil in my Shimano's with no noticeable side effects - just good braking and no fade.  I do abuse my back brake a bit. You can click on takealot and order some of the automotive quality mineral oil at under R200 p/l and it will be with you in 3 days. 

 

Sorry its now R202.00 https://www.takealot.com/total-lhm-plus-hydraulic-mineral-liquid-1l/PLID72926639?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7zwsNx_Klka_opoQabXyCtkgqNzBF1zwPXdxCZc4jHLmt5o9ap9mswaAonhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

agreed for 99% of use cases, heck Seth from Berm Peak is still running baby oil in one of his bikes, most people wont overheat the brake fluid on their bicycles.