IceCreamMan Posted June 3 Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, dave303e said: There is an interesting choice here though. Surely he could take it to a court of law to get it over turned if he was in the clear. But he would then run the risk of criminal charges if he was found guilty? Not challenging it in a court of law would surely be an acceptance of guilt? I don't want to imagine what it must be like for those poor girls. There should be criminal charges irrespective. ChrisF, Sepia and DieselnDust 2 1
ChrisF Posted June 3 Posted June 3 15 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said: How did we get to statutory rape? The allegations made are of a criminal nature, there should be a criminal investigation. Once found guilty in a court of law then sling his ass in gaol and ban him for life. CSA have erred here I believe. Exactly what I said ... hand over the case to authorities. "Grooming a 14 year old" .... NEEDS to be investigated justinafrika and DieselnDust 2
amac Posted June 3 Posted June 3 I have followed this thread and it is clear that many people do not understand legal process. All I know about this matter is what is contained in the CSA statement. It is apparent: 1. Mr Bester is an accredited coach. ( Accredited by CSA) 2. Two complaints were made against him to CSA. 3. CSA held a hearing and Mr. Bester was found guilty of improper conduct and was punished by CSA. 4. The CSA decision could be reviewed by higher legal authority. That could result in the punishment being upheld, amended or set aside. 5. The burden of proof at the CSA hearing is "proof on a balance of probabilities." In a criminal case the burden of proof is " beyond reasonable doubt." 6. If the CSA finding is reviewed and upheld, Mr. Bester would not have a criminal record and the review court could not impose a criminal sanction. 7. It is possible that criminal charges have been laid. It is also possible that criminal charges were not laid. Not every victim wishes to pursue justice via the criminal justice process. A criminal court does not have capacity to prevent a coach from coaching; (although an imprisoned coach is obviously unavailable.) 8. From the information contained in the CSA statement, it seems to me that CSA has handled the matter very well. binxc, Cal Naughton Jr., PregoRoll and 19 others 21 1
ChrisF Posted June 3 Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, amac said: I have followed this thread and it is clear that many people do not understand legal process. All I know about this matter is what is contained in the CSA statement. It is apparent: 1. Mr Bester is an accredited coach. ( Accredited by CSA) 2. Two complaints were made against him to CSA. 3. CSA held a hearing and Mr. Bester was found guilty of improper conduct and was punished by CSA. 4. The CSA decision could be reviewed by higher legal authority. That could result in the punishment being upheld, amended or set aside. 5. The burden of proof at the CSA hearing is "proof on a balance of probabilities." In a criminal case the burden of proof is " beyond reasonable doubt." 6. If the CSA finding is reviewed and upheld, Mr. Bester would not have a criminal record and the review court could not impose a criminal sanction. 7. It is possible that criminal charges have been laid. It is also possible that criminal charges were not laid. Not every victim wishes to pursue justice via the criminal justice process. A criminal court does not have capacity to prevent a coach from coaching; (although an imprisoned coach is obviously unavailable.) 8. From the information contained in the CSA statement, it seems to me that CSA has handled the matter very well. You might have missed the 3rd party inspection CSA had done ..... One thing missing from this. At which stage was any of this handed over to the police or legal system ?
DieselnDust Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) 21 hours ago, IceCreamMan said: How did we get to statutory rape? The allegations made are of a criminal nature, there should be a criminal investigation. Once found guilty in a court of law then sling his ass in gaol and ban him for life. CSA have erred here I believe. I don’t believe so. 1. we don’t know what’s happening on the criminal front. 2. He is a representative of CSA as his coaching license is issued by CSA. In the process of being deemed eligible to coach he has to sign an oath and needs to attain police clearance of any wrong doing , especially any sexual offences against minors. H e has violated the terms of that oath and the constitution of CSA, SASCOC, UCI and IOC and potentially committed criminal offenses 3. Internal investigations has found grounds to ban him from working as a licensed coach basis sexual misconduct. 4 this sanction will support any criminal investigation into his conduct. 5. there is a high likelihood SAPS will bungle any investigation. If he first had to be found guilty of criminal activities and then banned he would be allowed to continue operating . If found not guilty he’d be free to continue his activities and more children would be harmed. Edited June 4 by DieselnDust ShawnAbdoll, mazambaan and justinafrika 3
dave303e Posted June 3 Posted June 3 1 minute ago, amac said: I have followed this thread and it is clear that many people do not understand legal process. All I know about this matter is what is contained in the CSA statement. It is apparent: 1. Mr Bester is an accredited coach. ( Accredited by CSA) 2. Two complaints were made against him to CSA. 3. CSA held a hearing and Mr. Bester was found guilty of improper conduct and was punished by CSA. 4. The CSA decision could be reviewed by higher legal authority. That could result in the punishment being upheld, amended or set aside. 5. The burden of proof at the CSA hearing is "proof on a balance of probabilities." In a criminal case the burden of proof is " beyond reasonable doubt." 6. If the CSA finding is reviewed and upheld, Mr. Bester would not have a criminal record and the review court could not impose a criminal sanction. 7. It is possible that criminal charges have been laid. It is also possible that criminal charges were not laid. Not every victim wishes to pursue justice via the criminal justice process. A criminal court does not have capacity to prevent a coach from coaching; (although an imprisoned coach is obviously unavailable.) 8. From the information contained in the CSA statement, it seems to me that CSA has handled the matter very well. In what world would it be logical to stop him working in X profession because of an incident like this and not automatically have criminal charges laid? This basically means he can do his water polo/swimming/hockey/whatever coaching qualification and have at it again with someone else's daughter a few months later? DieselnDust 1
amac Posted June 3 Posted June 3 1 minute ago, ChrisF said: You might have missed the 3rd party inspection CSA had done ..... One thing missing from this. At which stage was any of this handed over to the police or legal system ? Hi Chris It may or may not have been referred to SAPS. CSA is entitled to deal with the matter because Mr. Bester is a coach who is accredited by CSA. Two (presumably licensed cyclists) complained to CSA. This is similar to the Alberto Salazar case in America where He was given a lifetime coaching ban. ChrisF, nonky, DieselnDust and 1 other 4
amac Posted June 3 Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, dave303e said: In what world would it be logical to stop him working in X profession because of an incident like this and not automatically have criminal charges laid? This basically means he can do his water polo/swimming/hockey/whatever coaching qualification and have at it again with someone else's daughter a few months later? Hi Dave The problem is that you cannot compel a victim to testify against an alleged perpetrator. DieselnDust, Danger Dassie and justinafrika 3
Robbie Stewart Posted June 3 Posted June 3 2 hours ago, ians H2Sport said: Career over, rightly so! And, he is married and has a kid........ WTF! No excuse for this I'm guessing he was married. Sad all round. So many victims. no winners.
DieselnDust Posted June 3 Posted June 3 6 minutes ago, dave303e said: In what world would it be logical to stop him working in X profession because of an incident like this and not automatically have criminal charges laid? This basically means he can do his water polo/swimming/hockey/whatever coaching qualification and have at it again with someone else's daughter a few months later? No other SASCOC branch will ( we would hope) take him on basis the CSA sanction. the criminal proceedings would need to be initiated by the children’s parents. Do they have the money to do so? We don’t know.
Frosty Posted June 3 Posted June 3 15 minutes ago, amac said: Two (presumably licensed cyclists) complained to CSA. Juniors (18-19 years old) and older are required to apply for a licence. Youth (U17 and younger) only require a membership with CyclingSA. The statement says 14 and 17, so likely they were youth riders.
amac Posted June 3 Posted June 3 Hi Frosty Thanks for clarifying. The point I was making is that the victims were members of CSA.
dave303e Posted June 3 Posted June 3 So there is enough evidence for him to lose all reputation and lose his right to work in a profession due to allegations of serious criminal activities. But it doesn't have to go to a criminal court? Would it be the same if it was for murder and a relative didn't want to testify in a court of law and only took it to a governing body? If it was SAICA and it was a CA who cheated the state out of billions which was anonymously reported. If the state hadn't realized it and didn't lay charges then what? It just raises more questions than answers about logic and law in my mind. I guess that is why we live in the wild west, plenty of grey areas to lurk in.
IceCreamMan Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) On 6/3/2024 at 1:07 PM, DieselnDust said: I don’t believe so. 1. we don’t know what’s happening on the criminal front. 2. He is a representative of CSAxas his coaching license is issued by CSA. In the process of being deemed eligible to coach he has to sign an oath and needs to attain police clearance of any wrong doing , especially any sexual offences against minors. H e has violated the termsnot that oath and the constitution of CSA, SASCOC and potentially committed criminal offenses 3. Internal investigations has found grounds to ban him from working as a licensed coach basis sexual misconduct. 4 this sanction will support any criminal investigation into his conduct. 5. there is a high likelihood SAPS will bungle any investigation. If he first had to be found guilty of criminal activities and then banned he would be allowed to continue operating . If found not guilty he’d be free to continue his activities and more children would be harmed. I am not arguing, however I believe CSA may have erred in labelling him publicly. This is very dangerous territory and sans a criminal conviction it’s thin ice ground. Edited June 5 by IceCreamMan
IceCreamMan Posted June 3 Posted June 3 (edited) On 6/3/2024 at 1:00 PM, amac said: I have followed this thread and it is clear that many people do not understand legal process. All I know about this matter is what is contained in the CSA statement. It is apparent: 1. Mr Bester is an accredited coach. ( Accredited by CSA) 2. Two complaints were made against him to CSA. 3. CSA held a hearing and Mr. Bester was found guilty of improper conduct and was punished by CSA. 4. The CSA decision could be reviewed by higher legal authority. That could result in the punishment being upheld, amended or set aside. 5. The burden of proof at the CSA hearing is "proof on a balance of probabilities." In a criminal case the burden of proof is " beyond reasonable doubt." 6. If the CSA finding is reviewed and upheld, Mr. Bester would not have a criminal record and the review court could not impose a criminal sanction. 7. It is possible that criminal charges have been laid. It is also possible that criminal charges were not laid. Not every victim wishes to pursue justice via the criminal justice process. A criminal court does not have capacity to prevent a coach from coaching; (although an imprisoned coach is obviously unavailable.) 8. From the information contained in the CSA statement, it seems to me that CSA has handled the matter very well. No need to be condescending. Labelling him is dangerous territory. Even more so if he is actually innocent. just look at the reaction on this thread. Edited June 5 by IceCreamMan
IceCreamMan Posted June 3 Posted June 3 30 minutes ago, amac said: Hi Chris It may or may not have been referred to SAPS. CSA is entitled to deal with the matter because Mr. Bester is a coach who is accredited by CSA. Two (presumably licensed cyclists) complained to CSA. This is similar to the Alberto Salazar case in America where He was given a lifetime coaching ban. CSA have no other option but to have a criminal case logged. to be aware of a crime and not report it IS A CRIME.
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