Tokai MTB Trails Closed untill further Notice

[Bro Derek]

38 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Bro, this thread is on a cycling site and specifically related to Tokai. That said my bubble is big and my comments relate to all areas that are burned out. The people you are meeting are just chance takers acting dumb to excuse their deliberate actions IMO. Or do they really not have phones, car radios and access to the internet? 

Or they aren't looking because they just don't know. 

The discussion went far beyond the Tokai MTB trails ages ago. 

You are just seeing what you want to see so you can respond the way you want to respond.

I will stand by this, no sign of burnt vegetation, no sign of trails being closed means people will use those trails. 

I'll also ask, wasn't there a huge drive to initiate and train more rangers to assist with mountain safety? If so, wouldn't these rangers be a fantastic roving use of resource to educate and monitor the problem areas as the chief concern for people not being there is safety?

It's just easier to complain that people are bad and won't do what they are told than it is to actually tell them in channels that people can actually see

[Headshot]

2 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

Or they aren't looking because they just don't know. 

The discussion went far beyond the Tokai MTB trails ages ago. 

You are just seeing what you want to see so you can respond the way you want to respond.

I will stand by this, no sign of burnt vegetation, no sign of trails being closed means people will use those trails. 

I'll also ask, wasn't there a huge drive to initiate and train more rangers to assist with mountain safety? If so, wouldn't these rangers be a fantastic roving use of resource to educate and monitor the problem areas as the chief concern for people not being there is safety?

It's just easier to complain that people are bad and won't do what they are told than it is to actually tell them in channels that people can actually see

Okay so now its just people accessing the unburned arears that are also closed that is the issue. Well its almost a non-issue for humans as there will be no safety concerns right there for them, but animals seeking refuge  could be endangered I suppose. I wonder why people don't show some responsibility and look for info or ask if they don't know. I suppose that would require common sense and having to honour the closure when you do find out its closed, something many people don't want to do. They'd rather plead ignorance and carry on.

I believe SANP have trained additional rangers and I saw at least 6 of them attending to crime prevention at the start/exit of the Missing Link trail system where it borders Camps Bay this weekend. 

At the end of the day you can moan all you like here but it wont make any difference. Maybe phone TMNP and *** on them instead of fighting about it with people here who've done their best to advise riders of the trail closures in the area this thread is about.  

[PhilipV]

3 hours ago, Headshot said:

Ever heard of common sense, Bro? Like why would it be okay to access a totally burned out trail network?  Do you and others need spoon feeding? You also forgot to mention Trailforks, which every self-respecting MTB rider should use and check for such things. The trails were marked as closed on TF very shortly after the fire.

While I do agree on the common sense point, I disagree up to a point on Trailforks. Tokai and Winelands are the only real TF areas that I found to be updated.  For the platteland and a lot of other trail centers it’s useless*. 

Thus  I haven’t used TF in years. 
 

*Anecdotal three year old evidence of One… 

 

Edited Monday at 02:00 PM by PhilipV

[Headshot]

19 minutes ago, PhilipV said:

While I do agree on the common sense point, I disagree up to a point on Trailforks. Tokai and Winelands are the only real TF areas that I found to be updated.  For the platteland and a lot of other trail centers it’s useless*. 

Thus  I haven’t used TF in years. 
 

*Anecdotal three year old evidence of One… 

 

I am TF admin for Tokai/TMNP and  you can add the greenbelts and the rest of TMNP's trails to the list of updated trails. The whole of Tygerberg is alo on and updated.

Its a user generated app so next time you head out and ride a cool trail why not add it and their admins will approve it. I do it when I head out and ride some far flung places. It'll stay useless if nobody makes any effort to update it.

[marko35s]

3 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

I'm not talking about Tokai. I'm talking about the greater area.

You can't see it burned from many trail entrances as you go south. I also specifically mentioned hikers, runners and dog walkers, most of whom definitely don't use trailforks.

Again, look beyond your bubble. 

I'm not using the mountain, I am saying that complaining about people using the mountain but making no effort in the real world to close anything makes no sense.

I'm over it. 

Again, today, I engaged with many people today who have no idea that the part they are using daily is closed

The real world barely touches on the circles you have mentioned. From Boyes drive all the way to fish hoek there is almost no evidence of a fire from the trail entrance and there are streams of people in and out

Rubbish, utter rubbish. All you do is make excuses for selfish individuals that simply don't care.

How about today where if you went to Tokai you would find the gates closed, a sign explaining the area is closed and hazard tape across multiple trail entrances, exits and around areas that had been repaired.

You know what we found when we went into Tokai to continue repairs?

People had gone through the gate, past the unmissable sign and then proceeded to tear down all the tape closing off the trails and riding them.

As far as damage goes, yes there was damage to the repaired sections of trail, but possibly more importantly there was other damage brought on by complaints to us by the horse riding community (riders in their section of the park) and SANParks having a chat with us about rider behaviour. The second one there is really important because we are lobbying for as early an opening as possible with the Snake trails, DH2, Lizard and all the trails below there being open for use and the remaining trails staying closed until they have been repaired. We are now being asked if this is viable because it appears that certain riders will simply ignore any closures. 

So thanks a lot to the self idiots that have just made getting Tokai open just that little bit more difficult.

And precisely what sodding bubble do we have to step out of to get the message across to these sad twats?

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Or they aren't looking because they just don't know. 

The discussion went far beyond the Tokai MTB trails ages ago. 

You are just seeing what you want to see so you can respond the way you want to respond.

I will stand by this, no sign of burnt vegetation, no sign of trails being closed means people will use those trails. 

I'll also ask, wasn't there a huge drive to initiate and train more rangers to assist with mountain safety? If so, wouldn't these rangers be a fantastic roving use of resource to educate and monitor the problem areas as the chief concern for people not being there is safety?

It's just easier to complain that people are bad and won't do what they are told than it is to actually tell them in channels that people can actually see

Ok I see this wasn’t a Friday post and you are actually serious….. eish!!!! Daai one.

these Russian visitors of yours…, they arrive , have a few shots of Pushkin, declare it crap diluted western sell out excuse of an alcoholic beverage. 
what do they consult to find trails?

mostlikely Google which will send them to….? …

 you guessed it, trail forks wait I googled it for you , see picture below. 
the next thing  they will want to do is get their bikes assembled, but let’s assume that they brought a mini workshop along on the Oligarcs super yacht. They assemble their bikes while supermodel daughters use that icon of western capitalist imperialist projection of wealth superiority, Google , to determine where to access the trail. It takes them to the entry gate kiosk on Tokai Road where , if they’re daylight riders, encounter a ….. you guessed it again,…. A rrrraaaannnnggggeeeerrrrr (rolls eyes) who sadly informs them that the trail is closed. You see, even if you chose to ignore the information provided by the imperialist Google , it is marked as closed on a few platforms (that could perhaps a larger notice on their landing pages rather than small print 3/4 of the way down the page.

however sadly your Russian visitors won’t be able to buy a permit and therefore will have to head to the northern suburbs trail network. 
mid said Russians , behave like other tourists and find a LBS to find out about the nearest and most accessible trails to ride they will also be informed of the fire and trail closures, no capitalist Google required. 
so perhaps the Russian tourists you are referring too are shy and would prefer to remain strictly anonymous then yes maybe they won’t get to find out about the closure until they get there but I’m sure they will go and grab lunch at the Norval Institute instead ?

just speculating here 

 

[DieselnDust]

34 minutes ago, marko35s said:

Rubbish, utter rubbish. All you do is make excuses for selfish individuals that simply don't care.

How about today where if you went to Tokai you would find the gates closed, a sign explaining the area is closed and hazard tape across multiple trail entrances, exits and around areas that had been repaired.

You know what we found when we went into Tokai to continue repairs?

People had gone through the gate, past the unmissable sign and then proceeded to tear down all the tape closing off the trails and riding them.

As far as damage goes, yes there was damage to the repaired sections of trail, but possibly more importantly there was other damage brought on by complaints to us by the horse riding community (riders in their section of the park) and SANParks having a chat with us about rider behaviour. The second one there is really important because we are lobbying for as early an opening as possible with the Snake trails, DH2, Lizard and all the trails below there being open for use and the remaining trails staying closed until they have been repaired. We are now being asked if this is viable because it appears that certain riders will simply ignore any closures. 

So thanks a lot to the self idiots that have just made getting Tokai open just that little bit more difficult.

And precisely what sodding bubble do we have to step out of to get the message across to these sad twats?

Bru baseball bats at dawn?

that which goes in must come out

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Headshot said:

I am TF admin for Tokai/TMNP and  you can add the greenbelts and the rest of TMNP's trails to the list of updated trails. The whole of Tygerberg is alo on and updated.

Its a user generated app so next time you head out and ride a cool trail why not add it and their admins will approve it. I do it when I head out and ride some far flung places. It'll stay useless if nobody makes any effort to update it.

Can you raise the closed flag on the tokai Trailforks landing page so it’s abundantly clear please. In this day and age reading is a scarce but critical skill . How so many get by in life without being able to read is beyond me

[betaboy]

6 hours ago, Iwan Kemp said:

If you have to ask, you're not ready yet. 

I will continue to wax off and wax on ✅👍🏻💪🏻

[Eddy Gordo]

I dont understand how people can claim they dont know!!!!!!

These same people use facebook, dammit they make use of the internet. Sanparks have a website with a forum, go on it and check!!!!

Notices have been going around immediately after the fire. 

Then there is common sense. What makes people think that the mountain is safe after a fire? All the vegetation is gone, what is holding the soil in place??? Dumbasses, surely you dont go into a building that has been recently destroyed by a fire, this is no different.

 

However ENTITLED people believe they can do as they please and claim ignorance. This is bull crap, in todays age, you cannot claim ignorance at all.

[Bro Derek]

So everyone still banging on at me about Tokai when I have clearly - CLEARLY - stated I am talking about the wider area of closures?

Right......

You guys read really well I see.

Kind of proves my point about reading to reply as opposed to reading to understand. 

Those taking it personally also need to chill. I'm not pointing fingers at you unless you work for Parks in the Webpage or PR division.

I use the mountain daily when allowed. I ride in Tokai when allowed and being up there is and has been a huge part of my life for years. I am missing it dearly and am also angry and annoyed it is in the state it is in. 

But the fact is that parts of the mountain are 'closed', are being used daily and these people genuinely don't know. 

As stated many times, not tokai for those who can't read so good.....

[DieselnDust]

42 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

So everyone still banging on at me about Tokai when I have clearly - CLEARLY - stated I am talking about the wider area of closures?

Right......

You guys read really well I see.

Kind of proves my point about reading to reply as opposed to reading to understand. 

Those taking it personally also need to chill. I'm not pointing fingers at you unless you work for Parks in the Webpage or PR division.

I use the mountain daily when allowed. I ride in Tokai when allowed and being up there is and has been a huge part of my life for years. I am missing it dearly and am also angry and annoyed it is in the state it is in. 

But the fact is that parts of the mountain are 'closed', are being used daily and these people genuinely don't know. 

As stated many times, not tokai for those who can't read so good.....

Tokai is just an example of where even when people know because there are signs up , they still do. I don’t believe that people genuinely don’t know. It just plain phuquwitism with a healthy dose of “who are  you to tell ME what to do”. As I said, it’s been on all community chats from Claremont to Smits . Even people in the north know. So people who don’t know chose not to know in order to have a convenient excuse. 

[marko35s]

1 hour ago, Bro Derek said:

So everyone still banging on at me about Tokai when I have clearly - CLEARLY - stated I am talking about the wider area of closures?

Right......

You guys read really well I see.

Kind of proves my point about reading to reply as opposed to reading to understand. 

Those taking it personally also need to chill. I'm not pointing fingers at you unless you work for Parks in the Webpage or PR division.

I use the mountain daily when allowed. I ride in Tokai when allowed and being up there is and has been a huge part of my life for years. I am missing it dearly and am also angry and annoyed it is in the state it is in. 

But the fact is that parts of the mountain are 'closed', are being used daily and these people genuinely don't know. 

As stated many times, not tokai for those who can't read so good.....

Checks name of thread and I see it is clearly - CLEARLY - called 'Tokaimtb Trails Closed until further notice'.

Why on earth would people be zoning in on Tokai, it's a complete mystery.

[Shebeen]

3 hours ago, marko35s said:

Rubbish, utter rubbish. All you do is make excuses for selfish individuals that simply don't care.

How about today where if you went to Tokai you would find the gates closed, a sign explaining the area is closed and hazard tape across multiple trail entrances, exits and around areas that had been repaired.

You know what we found when we went into Tokai to continue repairs?

People had gone through the gate, past the unmissable sign and then proceeded to tear down all the tape closing off the trails and riding them.

As far as damage goes, yes there was damage to the repaired sections of trail, but possibly more importantly there was other damage brought on by complaints to us by the horse riding community (riders in their section of the park) and SANParks having a chat with us about rider behaviour. The second one there is really important because we are lobbying for as early an opening as possible with the Snake trails, DH2, Lizard and all the trails below there being open for use and the remaining trails staying closed until they have been repaired. We are now being asked if this is viable because it appears that certain riders will simply ignore any closures. 

So thanks a lot to the self idiots that have just made getting Tokai open just that little bit more difficult.

And precisely what sodding bubble do we have to step out of to get the message across to these sad twats?

Name and shame where possible. Please

[NotSoBigBen]

11 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Ok I see this wasn’t a Friday post and you are actually serious….. eish!!!! Daai one.

these Russian visitors of yours…, they arrive , have a few shots of Pushkin, declare it crap diluted western sell out excuse of an alcoholic beverage. 
what do they consult to find trails?

mostlikely Google which will send them to….? …

 you guessed it, trail forks wait I googled it for you , see picture below. 
the next thing  they will want to do is get their bikes assembled, but let’s assume that they brought a mini workshop along on the Oligarcs super yacht. They assemble their bikes while supermodel daughters use that icon of western capitalist imperialist projection of wealth superiority, Google , to determine where to access the trail. It takes them to the entry gate kiosk on Tokai Road where , if they’re daylight riders, encounter a ….. you guessed it again,…. A rrrraaaannnnggggeeeerrrrr (rolls eyes) who sadly informs them that the trail is closed. You see, even if you chose to ignore the information provided by the imperialist Google , it is marked as closed on a few platforms (that could perhaps a larger notice on their landing pages rather than small print 3/4 of the way down the page.

however sadly your Russian visitors won’t be able to buy a permit and therefore will have to head to the northern suburbs trail network. 
mid said Russians , behave like other tourists and find a LBS to find out about the nearest and most accessible trails to ride they will also be informed of the fire and trail closures, no capitalist Google required. 
so perhaps the Russian tourists you are referring too are shy and would prefer to remain strictly anonymous then yes maybe they won’t get to find out about the closure until they get there but I’m sure they will go and grab lunch at the Norval Institute instead ?

just speculating here 

 

Nee man .... 😂😂😂😂

[MORNE]

11 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Ok I see this wasn’t a Friday post and you are actually serious….. eish!!!! Daai one.

these Russian visitors of yours…, they arrive , have a few shots of Pushkin, declare it crap diluted western sell out excuse of an alcoholic beverage. 
what do they consult to find trails?

mostlikely Google which will send them to….? …

 you guessed it, trail forks wait I googled it for you , see picture below. 
the next thing  they will want to do is get their bikes assembled, but let’s assume that they brought a mini workshop along on the Oligarcs super yacht. They assemble their bikes while supermodel daughters use that icon of western capitalist imperialist projection of wealth superiority, Google , to determine where to access the trail. It takes them to the entry gate kiosk on Tokai Road where , if they’re daylight riders, encounter a ….. you guessed it again,…. A rrrraaaannnnggggeeeerrrrr (rolls eyes) who sadly informs them that the trail is closed. You see, even if you chose to ignore the information provided by the imperialist Google , it is marked as closed on a few platforms (that could perhaps a larger notice on their landing pages rather than small print 3/4 of the way down the page.

however sadly your Russian visitors won’t be able to buy a permit and therefore will have to head to the northern suburbs trail network. 
mid said Russians , behave like other tourists and find a LBS to find out about the nearest and most accessible trails to ride they will also be informed of the fire and trail closures, no capitalist Google required. 
so perhaps the Russian tourists you are referring too are shy and would prefer to remain strictly anonymous then yes maybe they won’t get to find out about the closure until they get there but I’m sure they will go and grab lunch at the Norval Institute instead ?

just speculating here 

 

This is the type of advanced narrative sarcasm I signed up for! Beautiful 😂