Motorists vs Cyclists.... again (still there)

[DieselnDust]

5 minutes ago, Mamil said:

The illegal immigrant idea raises its head in this discussion because as the level of dysfunction in a society increases and as the rules that govern reasonable behaviour disintegrate, groups of people require an out group to provide a simple explanatory model as to why this is happening and a way of addressing the crisis. 

"The reason things are bad is that tjere are too many of those people here. The solutions is to eliminate those people so that order can be restored".

This process has repeated itself in innumerable historical contexts and is currently playing itself out on a global scale with catastrophic consequences and with worse to come.

In our country, the labelling of people and groups of people as illegal has a recent and devastating history and so imo should be dealt with sensitivity.

In all cases from previous war Germany, to present day USA, to the right wing rhetoric emerging in Europe as well as inntje topic under discussion here (road safety with particular reference to vulnerable road users) the problems are the result of complex interaction between structural, economic and political issues and are largely unresolvable from within the systems that spawn them.

Hence the need for "an other".

It is one of the darkest and most dangerous aspects of our nature. It also, paradoxically, if you follow the worktop yuval harari and others is one of the social mechanisms we use to unite groups in pursuit of collective endeavour. 

Edit. I ÷/÷× hate cell phone keyboards

 

beautifully articulated, thank you.

in RSA, increases in violent crime are more directly linked to unemployment. However, road accident stats are far less clear but with lack of knowledge or lack of necessary competence stemming from lack of training being more clear causals in RAF claims and payouts. Undocumented individuals pose a high risk to road safety from this perspective because they are unlikely to seek out the necessary training if they don't have the required residency documents. Its easier to obtain a fake docs  and milk that for as long as necessary. Similar trends exist in other countries. Our trends are harder to determine because the data is poor.

Societal corrective action has to start somewhere, typically pick a platform from which to start. In SA law enforcement in general will go a longway. Low hanging fruit is more roadblocks and taking unlicensed and or illegal drivers off the road, including unroadworthy vehicles. In South Africa a vulnerable road user is not just a cyclist or pedestrian, its also law abiding citizens who run the financial and healthy&safety gauntlett of sharing the road with illegal and incompetent drivers everyday. Once you demonstrate you have teeth and are willing to prosecute we may see positive outcomes. For now it will get much much worse before it gets better

[IceCreamMan]

18 hours ago, Mamil said:

Im all in favour of law and order but how many of us remember when the set of all things illegal included inter alia having sex with someone from a different race group, quoting Nelson Mandela ....

Illegal immigration is too complex a topic for this discussion. Worth noting of the 682 cars that passed me on today's ride, my first half peninsula loop since the most recent fatality here in CT, the only close.pass was from one-of the descendents of the first wave of illegal immigrants to our shores.

 

 

There’s bias in that statement. Think about it. 

[Robbie Stewart]

Colleague of mine and I were at the office working on a presentation for a large client the next day. We finished up and he left the office on his 125cc commute bike, and me in my bakkie. Both of us had about 5km home. 

Next morning I'm waiting for him at the office for the presentation, but he doesn't arrive. 

I find out later he got taken out in the traffic circle 500m from the office by an illegal immigrant with no licence, no ID, and no insurance. Thankfully he was only mildly hurt and made a full recovery. The bike was a write off. 

But ja, best not to pretend that this is a real problem facing everyone lest someone gets offended.

[Mamil]

2 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

There’s bias in that statement. Think about it. 

Patronising

[IceCreamMan]

3 hours ago, Mamil said:

Patronising

Maybe so. But it exposes bias, which is ironic. 

[DJR]

22 hours ago, Mamil said:

The illegal immigrant idea raises its head in this discussion because as the level of dysfunction in a society increases and as the rules that govern reasonable behaviour disintegrate, groups of people require an out group to provide a simple explanatory model as to why this is happening and a way of addressing the crisis. 

"The reason things are bad is that tjere are too many of those people here. The solutions is to eliminate those people so that order can be restored".

This process has repeated itself in innumerable historical contexts and is currently playing itself out on a global scale with catastrophic consequences and with worse to come.

In our country, the labelling of people and groups of people as illegal has a recent and devastating history and so imo should be dealt with sensitivity.

In all cases from previous war Germany, to present day USA, to the right wing rhetoric emerging in Europe as well as inntje topic under discussion here (road safety with particular reference to vulnerable road users) the problems are the result of complex interaction between structural, economic and political issues and are largely unresolvable from within the systems that spawn them.

Hence the need for "an other".

It is one of the darkest and most dangerous aspects of our nature. It also, paradoxically, if you follow the worktop yuval harari and others is one of the social mechanisms we use to unite groups in pursuit of collective endeavour. 

Edit. I ÷/÷× hate cell phone keyboards

 

Very good post. I so wish that more people would get this into their skulls and into their way of thinking about problems and possible solutions. The world will be a better place.

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

I understand about the illegal issue, but in terms of relevance to this thread, I still don’t understand. 

Alcohol, cellphones and dooring have contributed to the most accidents on this thread and afaik most if not all the drivers have been locals. 

I don’t think drivers are more likely to drive into cyclists because they’re illegal. 

But anyone is more likely to drive into cyclists because they’re drunk or distracted. 

Cellphone usage behind the wheel is an absolute scourge, as is drinking and driving.

I live fairly close to a more well-to-do RDP settlement. Everyone drives/walks/sits around with a beer in their hand. Sometimes with a phone in the other hand. 

I also live fairly close to two of the most affluent residential estates in Johannesburg. Everyone drives around with a phone in their hand. Some have a Stanley cup of wine in their cup holder. 

None of these machine pilots in the RDP area or the affluent estates are illegals. 

[Mamil]

51 minutes ago, RobynE 🚵‍♀️ said:

I understand about the illegal issue, but in terms of relevance to this thread, I still don’t understand. 

Alcohol, cellphones and dooring have contributed to the most accidents on this thread and afaik most if not all the drivers have been locals. 

I don’t think drivers are more likely to drive into cyclists because they’re illegal. 

But anyone is more likely to drive into cyclists because they’re drunk or distracted. 

Cellphone usage behind the wheel is an absolute scourge, as is drinking and driving.

I live fairly close to a more well-to-do RDP settlement. Everyone drives/walks/sits around with a beer in their hand. Sometimes with a phone in the other hand. 

I also live fairly close to two of the most affluent residential estates in Johannesburg. Everyone drives around with a phone in their hand. Some have a Stanley cup of wine in their cup holder. 

None of these machine pilots in the RDP area or the affluent estates are illegals. 

Absolutely correct. 

[Zebra]

I think a cyclist was knocked down ‘in’ one of the ENTRANCES - on the LEFT, just after the top, heading down over Ou Kaap se Weg, direction Noordhoek, at around 10.30 Sunday morning.

3 people were assisting him, and he was lying down OFF the main road-way, in the car-park entrance, so i did not stop (I was in a vehicle).

Hope he is ok; keen to hear HOW this happened. 
Chris

[Meezo]

17 hours ago, Zebra said:

I think a cyclist was knocked down ‘in’ one of the ENTRANCES - on the LEFT, just after the top, heading down over Ou Kaap se Weg, direction Noordhoek, at around 10.30 Sunday morning.

3 people were assisting him, and he was lying down OFF the main road-way, in the car-park entrance, so i did not stop (I was in a vehicle).

Hope he is ok; keen to hear HOW this happened. 
Chris

 

[Mook]

19 minutes ago, Meezo said:

 

Yo .............. this picture alone says a lot 🤬

I pray the cyclist is OK

[Robbie Stewart]

The colour of that bakkie is suspiciously reminiscent of a SANParks bakkie. 

[Shebeen]

On 5/1/2026 at 10:56 AM, DieselnDust said:

ah i see the use of strong language has been engaged e.g. "blatant generalized discrimination", "xenophobia"... Liberals never fail to rise to the occasion. 

Illegals are well,......illegal. I have no issues with residents. They're legal, just like a cyclist is a legal user of public roads. 

When laws are enforced on a holistic scale, society tends to be more law abiding. In the case of illegal immigration, enforcing immigration laws protects the rights of South Africans. Protects their infrastructure, revenue, it says "we care about our citizens", similarly enforcing road traffic laws, or property rights laws, immigration laws

why bring up illegal immigrants? In the past few months I have had several near misses with e-hail drivers. I tend to catch up or deviate from my route to strike up a conversation with these. Seven of 10 are not from RSA, None had a drivers or any form of ID on them yet they are carting people about and driving badly. One, I am sure was making it up as he went along because the driving skill down to the gear change reeked of "I just taught myself to drive last night". In the past week my wife was involved in a MVA with a mini bus taxi driven by a "I don't have my drivers or ID with me"  north of the border accent. Yes we're saddled with the inconvenience while this driver disappears. Oh and he was transporting school kids in his taxi while not having a drivers or ID and left the scene direction Claremont after providing a fake phone number.

A colleague of mine  runs a few e-hail vehicles as a side hustle. One of his vehicles disappeared along with the driver whose license and ID it turns out are fake....insurance covered him, although his premiums are now considerably higher.

Speak with people who run legitimate taxi services and they can't compete with some e-hail operators because the drivers are willing to drive for less than a local. Now the locals are losing out and what does that mean? More aggression on the roads as they compete for fares against drivers willing to take less.

That frustration boils over into the rest of society. Taxi's get away with murder (Literally) so why would Mrs Smith give a toss about running a red light, or cutting off a cyclist at the next left? Because she has to hold the moral high ground?? FT, she's going to do as she pleases because there's no enforcement and light consequences, even less if there's no witnesses 

So as we observe an influx of people not familiar with our laws or customs, yet immediately want to participate the informal economy with little upside to residents, then yes, its  a problem that has to be tackled, especially if they're driving my kids or family around or if i have to share the road with them. But ya, I guess wanting law and order doesn't apply to illegal immigration in the mind of a liberal

Wow, you really just couldn't let it go.

I'll let you dig this hole as deep as you feel necessary, with as many anecdotes as you can find. You cycling after and catching up to uber drivers to quiz them on their papers must be quite a sight to behold.

 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Meezo said:

 

That's a Sanparks bakkie.

Most likely scenario from the info given here would seem bakkie going northbound and turning right into Gate 2 parking lot after seeing a gap in the vehicles. There's a cyclist going southbound that he didn't see and there's a collision. Luckily the speeds involved here might not be that high, 

 

It is a crap intersection, been plenty of botsings there in the past but first one I can remember of a cylist.