Motorists vs Cyclists.... again (still there)

[Bro Derek]

Why would 'getting rid of all the illegals' make things better?

Is that not 'othering' and blatant generalized discrimination, which is exactly what cyclists are so upset about with regards them?

I find the stance of throwing a blanket on something so complex to be rather ignorant

[Danger Dassie]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

disagreement on their illegal status or what exactly ar ewe misaligned on.

illegal is illegal. same as drunk driving

Stoppit, just stop. There's no ambiguity in what he said and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at nor my quoted post. None. 
Please don't derail this thread. 

[ChrisF]

On 4/29/2026 at 3:58 PM, DieselnDust said:

well it affects good drivers as well. There's just so many k*k drivers out.

we can start by sending all the illegals back where they came from. We won't miss them.

 

I wanted to answer to this post on Thursday .... 

 

Friday's traffic, mid day and again in the afternoon .... it is downright scary how how bad VEHICLE our road behaviour has become :

- road rage

- total absent minded behaviour (even without visible signs of a phone or similar)

- yes, the phones

- total disregard for traffic lights .... I am getting scared to slow down for an orange light, three cars behind me still drive casually over the by then red robot

- aaaaagggg ... we all know the long list ....

 

Taxis ... around here it is (being optimistic) a 50/50 change of getting a decent driver vs a camacazy pilot .....  but being big blocks they are reasonably visible and we can mostly pre-empt the expected bad behaviour.

 

The bit that sits bad with me .... our very own neighbours that are adopting the taxi's bad habits ....

 

Cars vs cars is becoming a nightmare .....

 

The very sad reality .... these same bad drivers dont care about other cars, they care even less about a scratch or some cyclist blood on their fender .....

 

It is yet another piss up weekend, sorry a "long weekend" ..... PLEASE BE SAFE OUT THERE

 

 

For all our shared sentiments on this topic .... as a nation we are drifting further and further from a safe solution for ALL ROAD USERS.

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

Swinging in as Devil’s Advocate again. 

We really are our worst enemy. 

Last weekend I turned right off Cedar Road onto Runnymead Avenue. Before I turned, I saw a group, maybe 10 or so riders, had stopped on the left side of Runnymead.

My guess is they’d just climbed the Cedar Road hill from Lanseria side. They were busy hydrating, eating, etc. with some riders off their bikes.

They were 2-3 abreast as they stood there about 30m from the corner. Walking around, chatting, as if they were somewhere with full road closure. Bikes were in the road. 

Now - I had seen them, so was prepared to give them a wide berth (while shaking my head because it’s a dumb AF place to stop - that corner is absolutely lethal due to the lack of visibility and weird camber usually taken at speed, plus, an extremely narrow yellow line)…

… when their tail rider, clearly exhausted, suddenly cut from the right side of the road and veered in front of me while unclipping as she went to join the back of the group.

She clearly hadn’t seen me, clearly wasn’t expecting a car, and thankfully I wasn’t one of the taxis/maniacs who take that corner like a chicane, because she would have at best been bumped off her bike; at worst she would have been one of the fatalities added to this thread. 

Seriously. Do better. Don’t stop on what is effectively a blind corner. Don’t park 2-3 abreast. And for heaven’s sake check before crossing from one side of the road to the other. 

If you were that group - ride another 800m on the false flat down Runnymead and stop at the road closure gate. Or, keep riding on Cedar for another 30m and stop on the huge verge with the big ass sign that says Caution Cyclists - so your group doesn’t get mowed down.

If someone had hit your group you would have only had yourselves to blame.

[Shebeen]

15 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Why would 'getting rid of all the illegals' make things better?

Is that not 'othering' and blatant generalized discrimination, which is exactly what cyclists are so upset about with regards them?

I find the stance of throwing a blanket on something so complex to be rather ignorant

Took the words out of my mouth, thank you.

14 hours ago, Danger Dassie said:

Stoppit, just stop. There's no ambiguity in what he said and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at nor my quoted post. None. 
Please don't derail this thread. 

100% 

Xenophobia is not a good life choice.

 

@DieselnDust please please don't respond to this one, just let it go.

 

[Shebeen]

11 hours ago, RobynE 🚵‍♀️ said:

Swinging in as Devil’s Advocate again. 

We really are our worst enemy. 

Last weekend I turned right off Cedar Road onto Runnymead Avenue. Before I turned, I saw a group, maybe 10 or so riders, had stopped on the left side of Runnymead.

My guess is they’d just climbed the Cedar Road hill from Lanseria side. They were busy hydrating, eating, etc. with some riders off their bikes.

They were 2-3 abreast as they stood there about 30m from the corner. Walking around, chatting, as if they were somewhere with full road closure. Bikes were in the road. 

Now - I had seen them, so was prepared to give them a wide berth (while shaking my head because it’s a dumb AF place to stop - that corner is absolutely lethal due to the lack of visibility and weird camber usually taken at speed, plus, an extremely narrow yellow line)…

… when their tail rider, clearly exhausted, suddenly cut from the right side of the road and veered in front of me while unclipping as she went to join the back of the group.

She clearly hadn’t seen me, clearly wasn’t expecting a car, and thankfully I wasn’t one of the taxis/maniacs who take that corner like a chicane, because she would have at best been bumped off her bike; at worst she would have been one of the fatalities added to this thread. 

Seriously. Do better. Don’t stop on what is effectively a blind corner. Don’t park 2-3 abreast. And for heaven’s sake check before crossing from one side of the road to the other. 

If you were that group - ride another 800m on the false flat down Runnymead and stop at the road closure gate. Or, keep riding on Cedar for another 30m and stop on the huge verge with the big ass sign that says Caution Cyclists - so your group doesn’t get mowed down.

If someone had hit your group you would have only had yourselves to blame.

One of the most disappointing things on this issue for me is when cyclists really want to defend bad behaved cyclists. I expect push back on both our posts here.

[NC_lurker]

14 hours ago, RobynE 🚵‍♀️ said:

Swinging in as Devil’s Advocate again.,...

They were 2-3 abreast as they stood there about 30m from the corner. Walking around, chatting, as if they were somewhere with full road closure. Bikes were in the road. 

.......seriously. Do better. Don’t stop on what is effectively a blind corner. Don’t park 2-3 abreast. And for heaven’s sake check before crossing from one side of the road to the other. 

Lack of situational awareness boggles the mind sometimes. We often have a similar situation at the top of Suikerbossie heading north towards Llandudno. Groups will stop in the yellow line just over the top with not a lot of effort to stay left. Even if they're not concerned by getting clipped by a speeding motorist coming over the hill, what about having some consideration for fellow cyclists who now have to ride outside the yellow line to pass the stationary group.... it's weird..

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

Took the words out of my mouth, thank you.

100% 

Xenophobia is not a good life choice.

 

@DieselnDust please please don't respond to this one, just let it go.

 

ah i see the use of strong language has been engaged e.g. "blatant generalized discrimination", "xenophobia"... Liberals never fail to rise to the occasion. 

Illegals are well,......illegal. I have no issues with residents. They're legal, just like a cyclist is a legal user of public roads. 

When laws are enforced on a holistic scale, society tends to be more law abiding. In the case of illegal immigration, enforcing immigration laws protects the rights of South Africans. Protects their infrastructure, revenue, it says "we care about our citizens", similarly enforcing road traffic laws, or property rights laws, immigration laws

why bring up illegal immigrants? In the past few months I have had several near misses with e-hail drivers. I tend to catch up or deviate from my route to strike up a conversation with these. Seven of 10 are not from RSA, None had a drivers or any form of ID on them yet they are carting people about and driving badly. One, I am sure was making it up as he went along because the driving skill down to the gear change reeked of "I just taught myself to drive last night". In the past week my wife was involved in a MVA with a mini bus taxi driven by a "I don't have my drivers or ID with me"  north of the border accent. Yes we're saddled with the inconvenience while this driver disappears. Oh and he was transporting school kids in his taxi while not having a drivers or ID and left the scene direction Claremont after providing a fake phone number.

A colleague of mine  runs a few e-hail vehicles as a side hustle. One of his vehicles disappeared along with the driver whose license and ID it turns out are fake....insurance covered him, although his premiums are now considerably higher.

Speak with people who run legitimate taxi services and they can't compete with some e-hail operators because the drivers are willing to drive for less than a local. Now the locals are losing out and what does that mean? More aggression on the roads as they compete for fares against drivers willing to take less.

That frustration boils over into the rest of society. Taxi's get away with murder (Literally) so why would Mrs Smith give a toss about running a red light, or cutting off a cyclist at the next left? Because she has to hold the moral high ground?? FT, she's going to do as she pleases because there's no enforcement and light consequences, even less if there's no witnesses 

So as we observe an influx of people not familiar with our laws or customs, yet immediately want to participate the informal economy with little upside to residents, then yes, its  a problem that has to be tackled, especially if they're driving my kids or family around or if i have to share the road with them. But ya, I guess wanting law and order doesn't apply to illegal immigration in the mind of a liberal

[SoloCyclist]

What did I say recently on bikehub

When its public holidays stay away from camps bay and combine pay day weekend.

 

 

[Robbie Stewart]

7 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I guess wanting law and order doesn't apply to illegal immigration in the mind of a liberal

It would seem that the "illegal immigration" mind virus has reached our shores too where calling a spade a spade will get you ostracised. 

[Mamil]

Im all in favour of law and order but how many of us remember when the set of all things illegal included inter alia having sex with someone from a different race group, quoting Nelson Mandela ....

Illegal immigration is too complex a topic for this discussion. Worth noting of the 682 cars that passed me on today's ride, my first half peninsula loop since the most recent fatality here in CT, the only close.pass was from one-of the descendents of the first wave of illegal immigrants to our shores.

 

 

[Bro Derek]

@DieselnDust for a guy who thinks himself quite clever, you sometimes say the dumbest things

I especially enjoy it when you double down with anecdotal wash as though your opinion is fact

This view of yours is nonsense and you're trying to relate it to other relevant things using the most tenuous of strings

I am no liberal and I am certainly not a smart man, but your narrow minded small picture view on this particular topic is unfortunately standard 3 debate team stuff

But, I guess your next post will mansplane something to me in a derogatory tone only a 50 something man who thinks very highly of his own intellect can achieve so your Bikehub disciples will cackle and clap you on the back

I will listen when you talk about lubricants and some 'when I' Epic posts because you have experience in both, but this issue is not your area of expertise and unfortunately it shows

Just drop it. 

It isn't productive and it isn't relevant to the topic. 

 

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

I really don’t understand the relevance of illegals to this thread 🤔 Shall we move on? It’s weekend, and I’m sure there will be a new instalment of Cyclist vs Machine Operator in no time. 

[DieselnDust]

34 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

@DieselnDust for a guy who thinks himself quite clever, you sometimes say the dumbest things

I especially enjoy it when you double down with anecdotal wash as though your opinion is fact

This view of yours is nonsense and you're trying to relate it to other relevant things using the most tenuous of strings

I am no liberal and I am certainly not a smart man, but your narrow minded small picture view on this particular topic is unfortunately standard 3 debate team stuff

But, I guess your next post will mansplane something to me in a derogatory tone only a 50 something man who thinks very highly of his own intellect can achieve so your Bikehub disciples will cackle and clap you on the back

I will listen when you talk about lubricants and some 'when I' Epic posts because you have experience in both, but this issue is not your area of expertise and unfortunately it shows

Just drop it. 

It isn't productive and it isn't relevant to the topic. 

 

 

You're right, I have no experience of illegal immigration because I've always had to do it legally. Pity you decided to play the man but I expected you to project the mirror, thank you. I see you now. there's a place you can go to and go very quickly. We have a south africanism for this translation

[IceCreamMan]

11 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

@DieselnDust for a guy who thinks himself quite clever, you sometimes say the dumbest things

I especially enjoy it when you double down with anecdotal wash as though your opinion is fact

This view of yours is nonsense and you're trying to relate it to other relevant things using the most tenuous of strings

I am no liberal and I am certainly not a smart man, but your narrow minded small picture view on this particular topic is unfortunately standard 3 debate team stuff

But, I guess your next post will mansplane something to me in a derogatory tone only a 50 something man who thinks very highly of his own intellect can achieve so your Bikehub disciples will cackle and clap you on the back

I will listen when you talk about lubricants and some 'when I' Epic posts because you have experience in both, but this issue is not your area of expertise and unfortunately it shows

Just drop it. 

It isn't productive and it isn't relevant to the topic. 

 

You haven’t actually addressed his post with fact. Played the man, not the ball. 

[Mamil]

The illegal immigrant idea raises its head in this discussion because as the level of dysfunction in a society increases and as the rules that govern reasonable behaviour disintegrate, groups of people require an out group to provide a simple explanatory model as to why this is happening and a way of addressing the crisis. 

"The reason things are bad is that tjere are too many of those people here. The solutions is to eliminate those people so that order can be restored".

This process has repeated itself in innumerable historical contexts and is currently playing itself out on a global scale with catastrophic consequences and with worse to come.

In our country, the labelling of people and groups of people as illegal has a recent and devastating history and so imo should be dealt with sensitivity.

In all cases from previous war Germany, to present day USA, to the right wing rhetoric emerging in Europe as well as inntje topic under discussion here (road safety with particular reference to vulnerable road users) the problems are the result of complex interaction between structural, economic and political issues and are largely unresolvable from within the systems that spawn them.

Hence the need for "an other".

It is one of the darkest and most dangerous aspects of our nature. It also, paradoxically, if you follow the worktop yuval harari and others is one of the social mechanisms we use to unite groups in pursuit of collective endeavour. 

Edit. I ÷/÷× hate cell phone keyboards

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Mamil