Coffee machine

[Mudsimus]

Really happy with the Lelit setup, much more convenient compared to my Silvia. And having a PID is a game changer. 

[Mountain Bru]

I realize this has probably been discussed many times, but this fred is 430 pages long, and time is not refundable, so please show some grace.....

What do the experts here recommend for the best sub R10k machine? 

I've always considered the Breville Barista Express (https://bit.ly/3yfx6AS) to be the default option, but then I discovered this Kenwood machine which looks pretty decent too: https://bit.ly/3iieb2P. Anyone have any other comments or suggestions?

I'm torn between a bean-to-cup or a manual machine though. What's the expert opinion here? A mate of mine has the theory that a bean-to-cup machine is 80% as good as  manual machine, for 5% of the effort.... It's tough to argue with that, but I've often found that some bean-to-cup machines make exceptionally average coffee that people assume to be good because they spent R20k on the machine. 

Is there a go-to bean to cup machine?

 

[Mountain Bru]

2 hours ago, clarce098@gmail.com said:

It depends on what kinds of coffee you want to have. It is by certain kinds that you choose. If it's something simple like espresso, you won't spend much. You can even get little-known brands. But something cooler, like a latte you need to spend a lot of money.

Not really sure how to understand what you're saying seen as literally all coffees are based on espresso shots with a combination of steamed milk/foamed milk/cream/etc (see below). If you mean "push a button and a latte falls out", in my experience, that feature isn't super useful cos the milk vrots in the container. So I'd probably end up basically just making americanos and adding hot milk in daily usage. A lot of cheaper bean to cup machines seem to also make watery under extracted "espresso" shots though, so I'd want to avoid that.

So I guess what I want is a machine that makes good espresso shots every time for the least effort. So consistent and repeatable extraction, which probably translates into sufficient and consistent pressure build up, consistent water temp, and adjustable brew time, and adjustable grind settings? Was hoping someone would have a machine they can recommend. 

Personally, I like the taste of good coffee, not coffee flavored milk, so I'm a flat white/americano with milk kind of guy. Not sure if thats a factor when choosing a machine? I'm not a coffee snob though... I just know what good coffee tastes like and choose to drink that. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Mountain Bru

[Mudsimus]

14 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

I realize this has probably been discussed many times, but this fred is 430 pages long, and time is not refundable, so please show some grace.....

What do the experts here recommend for the best sub R10k machine? 

I've always considered the Breville Barista Express (https://bit.ly/3yfx6AS) to be the default option, but then I discovered this Kenwood machine which looks pretty decent too: https://bit.ly/3iieb2P. Anyone have any other comments or suggestions?

I'm torn between a bean-to-cup or a manual machine though. What's the expert opinion here? A mate of mine has the theory that a bean-to-cup machine is 80% as good as  manual machine, for 5% of the effort.... It's tough to argue with that, but I've often found that some bean-to-cup machines make exceptionally average coffee that people assume to be good because they spent R20k on the machine. 

Is there a go-to bean to cup machine?

 

Sub 10? Gaggia Classic Pro by a mile. And you will have change for a proper tamper and bottomless portafilter.

[Stefan Cremer]

14 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

I realize this has probably been discussed many times, but this fred is 430 pages long, and time is not refundable, so please show some grace.....

What do the experts here recommend for the best sub R10k machine? 

I've always considered the Breville Barista Express (https://bit.ly/3yfx6AS) to be the default option, but then I discovered this Kenwood machine which looks pretty decent too: https://bit.ly/3iieb2P. Anyone have any other comments or suggestions?

I'm torn between a bean-to-cup or a manual machine though. What's the expert opinion here? A mate of mine has the theory that a bean-to-cup machine is 80% as good as  manual machine, for 5% of the effort.... It's tough to argue with that, but I've often found that some bean-to-cup machines make exceptionally average coffee that people assume to be good because they spent R20k on the machine. 

Is there a go-to bean to cup machine?

 

We got the Breville Barista Express in Feb and I couldn’t possibly be happier with it.

Major consideration for me was to get a manual machine (as opposed to bean to cup) and the BBE ticked all of the boxes that I deemed important.

I’m no expert barista, but I thoroughly enjoy the process of making the coffee and experimenting with different beans to extract great espresso’s. Also, I’m really chuffed with the consistency of the taste and am in general no longer impressed by most Pta coffee shops and restaurants’ coffee when compared to what I now drink at home.

 

[Mongoose!]

Breville barista all the way.

[Mountain Bru]

7 hours ago, Mongoose! said:

Breville barista all the way.

Seems this is the "standard option" I was looking for

[Mountain Bru]

8 hours ago, Mudsimus said:

Sub 10? Gaggia Classic Pro by a mile. And you will have change for a proper tamper and bottomless portafilter.

Now this is interesting....
https://capecoffeebeans.co.za/products/gaggia-classic-home-espresso-machine?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+display&utm_campaign=Shopping+Feeder&variant=39388885778566&sfdr_ptcid=123_617_673065178&sfdr_hash=253fe11e5ac2f29a000a1d2abe9fe8a4&gclid=CjwKCAjw0qOIBhBhEiwAyvVcf7392aSqse8ibErNLgiJwS5kB1-RRf7CAnZ7VTCk_cJFsLHsM7Z_4xoClNUQAvD_BwE

I have a krups grinder (the "standard" one)... is that sufficient for this kind of machine? Grinding straight into the portafilter is such a win though. 

Proper tamper..... What constitutes a proper tamper? A colleague of mine bought a piece of stainless steel and made some on the CNC at work... Seems pretty proper to me and cost like R120 in material. 

Are bottomless portafilters where it's at for making good coffee? Or are they just for making good instagram photos? (Looking at you @Mudsimus????)

[Mountain Bru]

Is this a proper tamper? 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mountain Bru

[NeverNotRolling]

3 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Now this is interesting....
https://capecoffeebeans.co.za/products/gaggia-classic-home-espresso-machine?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+display&utm_campaign=Shopping+Feeder&variant=39388885778566&sfdr_ptcid=123_617_673065178&sfdr_hash=253fe11e5ac2f29a000a1d2abe9fe8a4&gclid=CjwKCAjw0qOIBhBhEiwAyvVcf7392aSqse8ibErNLgiJwS5kB1-RRf7CAnZ7VTCk_cJFsLHsM7Z_4xoClNUQAvD_BwE

I have a krups grinder (the "standard" one)... is that sufficient for this kind of machine? Grinding straight into the portafilter is such a win though. 

Proper tamper..... What constitutes a proper tamper? A colleague of mine bought a piece of stainless steel and made some on the CNC at work... Seems pretty proper to me and cost like R120 in material. 

Are bottomless portafilters where it's at for making good coffee? Or are they just for making good instagram photos? (Looking at you @Mudsimus????)

That Krups grinder will most likely not grind fine enough for proper espresso.

[Trashy]

1 hour ago, Mountain Bru said:

Is this a proper tamper? 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that tamper!

If you have the resources to make a custom tamper I would also be very interested...

I've had a Barista Express for 3 years and couldn't be happier. It's simple to use, easy to clean and maintain and the coffee quality is consistently excellent. I am often left disappointed with the coffee from local boutique coffee shops, but this has never disappointed me.

It also has a fantastic steam wand for the amateur barista which is capable of superb micro-foam.

They seem to be on special fairly often too which makes it a no-brainer IMO.

[warick_wrx]

58 minutes ago, NeverNotRolling said:

That Krups grinder will most likely not grind fine enough for proper espresso.

with a bit of "know how" the grinder can be tweaked to grind super fine

[Mountain Bru]

3 hours ago, warick_wrx said:

with a bit of "know how" the grinder can be tweaked to grind super fine

If ever there was a place to share that know how, this would be it ????

Do you maybe also have some "know how" in making the thing grind without the collection hopper in place? 

[Mountain Bru]

4 hours ago, Trashy said:

Absolutely nothing wrong with that tamper!

If you have the resources to make a custom tamper I would also be very interested...

I've had a Barista Express for 3 years and couldn't be happier. It's simple to use, easy to clean and maintain and the coffee quality is consistently excellent. I am often left disappointed with the coffee from local boutique coffee shops, but this has never disappointed me.

It also has a fantastic steam wand for the amateur barista which is capable of superb micro-foam.

They seem to be on special fairly often too which makes it a no-brainer IMO.

I see they're R10k now. Any idea what a special price would be? (Don't think I've ever seen them cheaper)

The Gaggia Classic Pro looks super legit too though. I get the feeling that's more of "hardcore" machine though, where the barista express is a quality home machine. 

In terms of the tampers... I have resources, but not necessarily time at the moment. When things quieten down, I'll pop you a message. 

[Trashy]

I got my Barista when they were also still 10k but around December they had a 25% off special. The next year it was 20% off.

Considering it has a really decent grinder built in, I think it's a steal, even at full price.

Thanks man, I'd be super keen if you find the time at some point.

[Mudsimus]

14 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Now this is interesting....
https://capecoffeebeans.co.za/products/gaggia-classic-home-espresso-machine?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product+display&utm_campaign=Shopping+Feeder&variant=39388885778566&sfdr_ptcid=123_617_673065178&sfdr_hash=253fe11e5ac2f29a000a1d2abe9fe8a4&gclid=CjwKCAjw0qOIBhBhEiwAyvVcf7392aSqse8ibErNLgiJwS5kB1-RRf7CAnZ7VTCk_cJFsLHsM7Z_4xoClNUQAvD_BwE

I have a krups grinder (the "standard" one)... is that sufficient for this kind of machine? Grinding straight into the portafilter is such a win though. 

Proper tamper..... What constitutes a proper tamper? A colleague of mine bought a piece of stainless steel and made some on the CNC at work... Seems pretty proper to me and cost like R120 in material. 

Are bottomless portafilters where it's at for making good coffee? Or are they just for making good instagram photos? (Looking at you @Mudsimus????)

Good Instagram shots are reason enough, no?

Like mentioned in an earlier post, the bottomless allows for finer grinds and it's a great teaching tool to identify poor puck prep.

The Krupps grinder will work, it will definitely grind fine enough, but the main issue will be it's fine adjustability, you might not be able to dial it in 100%.

My choice would still be the Gaggia over the Barista, its much closer to a commercial machine.