Tokai and Silvermine to remain closed to the public

[GLuvsMtb]

I don't see SA Parks working up in Tokai forest????

 

Maybe we all cyclists have strike or march up to Manor House to demand to use it sooner..

Where is the dislike button?

[marko35s]

Where is the dislike button?

It really is worth having one installed just for that comment.

[jimmy hardtail]

Doing a protest march is a bit like unemployed people striking for jobs. Not really gonna accomplish much....

[GLuvsMtb]

Being on the trails is a privilege, not a right. The least we can do is support Sanparks and Cape Pine in what must still be a very sensitive time for them.

[tubed]

Being on the trails is a privilege, not a right. The least we can do is support Sanparks and Cape Pine in what must still be a very sensitive time for them.

With respect, I disagree.

 

Everybody has a right to be on the trails - that was part of the deal in granting Sanparks the privilege to manage the park. the rights are not an unfettered rights and it has to be exercised with regard to the rights and obligations of all other users. In particular given the natural disaster of late and the urgent need to harvest the trees - no issue there.

 

At the same time Sanparks has primarily an OBLIGATION to manage the park, for which they receive remuneration/ revenue.

 

I would argue that in not providing an alternative plan to an already overutilised Tokai/ Silvermine area (which was brought to their attention for years), they have now placed themselves in a very tricky position re Table Mountain which is now experiencing an overuse - which just speaks to poor, reactive management and exercise of their obligations. 

 

As far as I am aware Sanparks only action re Table Mountain has been an attempt to now enforce the use of Activity cards in this area. Whether this is an attempt to recover revenue ( I doubt, as nobody would now buy an activity card - other than an Epic entrant) or rather the fact that they have woken up to the major environmental impact Peninsula mtb is having a on a very limited portion of the mountain.

 

To my mind it speaks of dereliction of responsibility and obligation by Sanaparks who should have had plan B in place.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

With respect, I disagree.

 

Everybody has a right to be on the trails - that was part of the deal in granting Sanparks the privilege to manage the park. the rights are not an unfettered rights and it has to be exercised with regard to the rights and obligations of all other users. In particular given the natural disaster of late and the urgent need to harvest the trees - no issue there.

 

At the same time Sanparks has primarily an OBLIGATION to manage the park, for which they receive remuneration/ revenue.

 

I would argue that in not providing an alternative plan to an already overutilised Tokai/ Silvermine area (which was brought to their attention for years), they have now placed themselves in a very tricky position re Table Mountain which is now experiencing an overuse - which just speaks to poor, reactive management and exercise of their obligations.

 

As far as I am aware Sanparks only action re Table Mountain has been an attempt to now enforce the use of Activity cards in this area. Whether this is an attempt to recover revenue ( I doubt, as nobody would now buy an activity card - other than an Epic entrant) or rather the fact that they have woken up to the major environmental impact Peninsula mtb is having a on a very limited portion of the mountain.

 

To my mind it speaks of dereliction of responsibility and obligation by Sanaparks who should have had plan B in place.

The right to access is restricted to being on foot. Anything else is considered an activity and as such is a privilege.

[tubed]

Just so I dont come across as only moaning about this, I would suggest the following (and I am delighted to hear that currently concerted efforts are being made with all stakeholders to open up other areas.)

 

The areas which could be opened immediately for use I would see as follows:

 

• Lower sections of Cecilia from Constantia through to Hohenort - put up signage advising users to share the jeep track - lets educate rather than be heavy handed. By all means if you are caught riding outside of this designated area, then prosecute in terms of NEMA etc. 
• The area above Camps Bay/ Rontree, again signage to educate riders re dog walkers etc
• Signal Hill, the areas which were ridden for years - put up decent signage to ensure people have no excuse to know where they may and may not be.
• Open Wapad/ Silvermine both sides asap, again proper signage, you stray off the jeep tracks and you pay - likewise if you are an inconsiderate user, then you are ostracised in some way or other to demonstrate that mtb is serious about working with all other people who have rights.
• Constantia greenbelts: open up limited areas, again good signage, try and create the transition everyone is looking for which links up to Cecilia and then on to Newlands. Its happening already more and more each night as I drive home I see loads of people trying to get to Newlands, lets just make it certain and safer.

 

Note: none of the above suggests singletrack - at this stage is about getting people off the roads and into legitimate riding areas where they can ride/ train and we can use this time to build relationships with other stakeholders such as dog walkers. (A campaign to ride with a bell could be a good idea).

 

 

[tubed]

The right to access is restricted to being on foot. Anything else is considered an activity and as such is a privilege.

I would agree that Sanparks "consider" it as such and hence they treat it like that. But I would argue that mtb has a right, certainly not an unfettered one. I am open to correction.

 

But maybe the argument should be more about being an entrenched stakeholder.

[(Deon)]

Tubed.

 

You pay a lot of attention to signage and prosecution. You would almost be saying the the mtb'er can't be trusted and for those who still don't respond to penalty, should face a sentence tougher than law.

 

Then you go on to say that you only want to share wide jeep track where we can build on relationships with all users. You, in the space of one paragraph, now trust the mtb'er to grant you your wish? Maybe today you will get 100 likes and 50 shares. wishlists generate a lot of enthusiasm..

 

From placing a sign at every entry, exit, intersection, and with several reminders along the way warning of penalty for not obeying the rules in existence since 2002 - to the warm and fuzzies by accepting second best with the hope of building relationships by the same group for which every sign is intended, is quite a leap of faith that after a year your signs are still respected and that new trails have not popped up along the way.

 

The reality is that this is all currently underway but at every point and turn in the road, there is always someone who cannot apply even the slightest bit of restraint when trying to "convert" the other users - like swearing at a 72 year old lady and showing her the finger in your branded cycling kit. (I met her btw). Or screaming inches passed a group of walkers with children (I met them too). Or building illegally because your 'only sharing' status sets a precedent for another lengthy timeframe before money is raised and an opportunity is available to us again. (How long should be be prepared to share?)

 

You could be forgiven for think everyone will respect your campaign in a year because today, on paper, it looks fantastic and for that I will like your two posts above.

 

OR, are you saying that every mtb'er should now try a new shift in thinking and respect the wishes of those working to make reality what you propose? Let's hope you have better luck or maybe the circumstance is now prime with all the closures for each to finally "give it a go". You have my support!

Edited April 1, 2015 by (insert name here..)
Ed: sp

[Eddy Gordo]

Wait wait wait,

 

I am very much for signage, but basic signage so that it does not interfere with the feng shui 

 

but to have something like  is not cool at all

[dirtypot]

Wait wait wait,

 

I am very much for signage, but basic signage so that it does not interfere with the feng shui 

 

but to have something like  is not cool at all

 

Reminds me of the traffic lights that I used to encounter in Canary Wharf in London:

[tubed]

Just trying to constructively add to the debate, I really appreciate the behind the scenes work you guys do.

 

I clearly remember when wearing helmets was uncool, driving on beaches was cool and nobody said anything if you cruised through a red light on a bike. Kind of a bit different now. People change slowly over time, as does behaviour with education.

 

Make no mistake many many cyclists embarrass me no end with their behaviour, as do dog walkers, as do drivers. If we want more places to ride we are going to have to self enforce to some extent. 

 

As an example only an idiot would now ride at Bloemendal without a board, those cameras and your pic on facebook is a pretty strong deterrent. But idiots are among us.

 

(PS: I heard the expression the other day: "ek poep nie vir punte nie", which I think applies here. Just trying to add to the debate and not just moan, sorry if you see it another way)

 

 

[(Deon)]

Just trying to constructively add to the debate, I really appreciate the behind the scenes work you guys do.

 

I clearly remember when wearing helmets was uncool, driving on beaches was cool and nobody said anything if you cruised through a red light on a bike. Kind of a bit different now. People change slowly over time, as does behaviour with education.

 

Make no mistake many many cyclists embarrass me no end with their behaviour, as do dog walkers, as do drivers. If we want more places to ride we are going to have to self enforce to some extent. 

 

As an example only an idiot would now ride at Bloemendal without a board, those cameras and your pic on facebook is a pretty strong deterrent. But idiots are among us.

 

(PS: I heard the expression the other day: "ek poep nie vir punte nie", which I think applies here. Just trying to add to the debate and not just moan, sorry if you see it another way)

Apologies are not really needed, what I see is just fact. The plan is spot on, execution is the sticking point. As you said, it's a debate but unfortunately there ain't no shying away from the ugly stuff. 

 

You really do have my support, as well as everyone else who wants the same. Just the fact that you replied with a reasonable response shows you are not afraid to head into a part of the topic that most would rather block out or ignore.

 

On the one side there are guys that are willing to look at our situation holistically and others who look only for issues and use it as fuel in whatever suits an argument. You are showing that you can handle the red pill, something that those focussed on the solution greatly appreciate!

 

TBH, if it was not for your posts, I would not have seen the point of giving you my honest reply. It is hugely frustrating. Just one look at what is happening in the North now shows that signs and years of effort means nothing to some. 

[kellyslater]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

[dirtypot]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

 

And risk facing a R2500 fine?

That's an XT brake set right there.

It also doesn't help the cause for those of us who are trying to play along and not be seen as a nuisance to the people calling the shots.  Everybody wants to ride, but don't be selfish about it.

[(Deon)]

I am going to simplify this for you guys....

I am not going to stop riding my mountain bike because they have closed Tokai.

Either they make a plan and allow access to the next best option i.e Greenbelts and Constantia Nek or we will ride there anyway.

Do they think all the mountain bikers in the southern suburbs are just going to stop riding for 6 - 18 months until tokai is opened ? lol

Desperate times = desperate measures.

No, they are offering your money back to ride elsewhere if you don't want to remain in the areas designated for riding. No one has asked you to stop riding your bike. As the Dirtypot says, what you choose to do in your desperation has an impact on others.

 

What's next, legalise copper theft because money is tight?

Edited April 1, 2015 by (insert name here..)