Ethics in classifieds!?

[carbon29er]

Maybe BikeMarket can come and participate here and give his/her version?

 

Might not be bad thing to contribute to the forums either.....

 

 

But everyone has an opinion. So this is what is being expressed here. No one said anything about right or wrong... 

 

I'll give you some feedback from a seller's point of view on what buyers do that is not helpful to an efficient market. In my opinion as someone who often offers great bargains, always realistically priced. And as I'm classed as a business, I pay for every advert I list. So I'm a serious seller. But, hopefully, I'm not a fool in my pricing.

 

I have never bought an item and on-sold it on the hub without adding value. My advice does not constitute adding value.  Or washing an item does not constitute adding value.

1. Comment on the advert "Is item still available?" Then disappear. If you are interested, do it via PM, Phone, Email, WhatsApp, SMS but not on the advert. Only time wasters do that. Of course it's available, that is why the advert is open.
2. Negotiate on the advert in the comments section, Buyer asks for R1,200. Comment comes in "I'll offer R600". PM commenter, no reply received. Seller may as well delete the advert as the sale at R1,200 is dead. The phantom buyer has set the price but is not serious.  If you are going to offer a price way below the asking price, do it via PM, Phone, Email, WhatsApp, SMS but not on the advert. Only time wasters do that.
3. Post a comment "I can buy it at the oom or somewhere else for R####". Seller may as well delete the advert as the sale at his price is dead. Why be spiteful? If you want the item see 2 above. If you don't then leave the advert alone. Often the oom has no stock of the item or the oom's stock is last year's model and should be even cheaper compared to what is being advertised.
4. Communicate that you'll take the item. Then disappear. Ethics works both ways.
5. Agree a price then turn up with less cash than you agreed.  Seller would be a real a/hole if he did that to you....
6. Expect delivery before payment has cleared.
7. Rate the seller. It helps other hubbers. I've sold to about 400 separate hubbers over 5 years. I've been rated 7 times. Some guys have bought from me more than I've been rated in total.

It's generally a market that works. Sometimes someone misses out on buying something. More often a seller misses out on selling something because of the things I've listed.

[Mudsimus]

Well the resell thing is pretty easy to beat actually.

Just don't sell your stuff to them.

 

 

If his money is real I couldn't care less what he does with the item Im selling.

[Patchelicious]

If his money is real I couldn't care less what he does with the item Im selling.

Drug dealers say the same thing.

[Goodbadugly]

I did not read through the whole tread.

My opinion

My most recent definition of ethics:

Ethics is the way party A would like other party B to behave. Unfortunately party B sometimes sees himself as a special exception so it does not apply to him that much.

 

In the first few posts I read that a bike was sold before party B sold a bike before party A could get to him. In the new world we live in, things have changed.

 

When I was young, we went to the bank and asked how much die oom at Volkskas was prepared to lend me for my first house. I then went into the market and looked for a house in that price range.

 

Times have changed. People now shop for a house, sign a contract and THEN go to the bank for financing. With the effect that many of the contracts becomes null and void.

 

Unfortunately we live in a world of hypocrites. And sometimes I catch myself outdoing other hypocrites .

The 3 biggest lies being:

1. The payment is made/ cheque is in the mail
2. I will call you back
3. Of course I love you/will withdraw before I c...

I don't like the 'new way' of doing things, but that is the way it is.

I prefer this:

 

[Mudsimus]

Drug dealers say the same thing.

And business is booming.

[Kalahari Vegmot]

Sellers usually aren't in a position to be too picky, unfortunately.

The power lies with the buyers

True, but in the 20 odd something times I bought something, most of the sellers weren't in much of a rush to sell.

 

Sure, if you have to sell it, you have to sell it. Depends on your situation. But given the prices at what most resellers buy things anyway, you shouldn't have much of a problem selling it yourself.

[Theunissa]

I phoned once on a specialzed for sale seller told me there is someone else going to come look at the bike but it f i come first i can have it. I had the time to go prior but decided not to. What goes around comes around

 

 

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[LeoKnight]

well one thing about Bikemarket the fact that he takes good photos, and yes the latest Spark he posted was also on the hub recently, but think nearly for the same price (maybe a 5% markup from the origional asking price)

 

I have sold things here and generally I am just trying to recover some costs but not out and out to make a profit, whereas others here are here to fund their purchases. I can't judge them for their decisions, I can just share that I don't agree and rather believe in a bike community that supports the other guy starting out or that is struggling getting into the sport in getting something better. (and yes I know the counter argument that for that guy to flip a few items might help him build up a bigger stash of cash). At the same way that guy cannot judge me if I decide not to sell to him and rather to someone else that I might have read in the threads needs assistance and give them a good price.

[Skylark]

Now BikeMarket

Oh sheet, I never clicked, did notice something felt a little deja vu with some of the ads.

 

I think it's fair dice to call out crazy pricing in ads, especially if the seller implies what a good deal his price is. I've appreciated that help from other hubbers before and unsuspecting buyers get taken sometimes. Post a link in the comments to the correct retail pricing on a reputable retailers website. If a seller wants to post in the classifieds then part and parcel of that is to accept that people are free to post comments and if your "deal" is genuine then it obviously should bear scrutiny. Likewise if I see a good deal I'll post a comment as much, goes both ways.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Skylark

[MJ the Expat]

Yeah I don't get it.

Was anyone looking to buy a BMC for R23.5k? No? So what the problem is?

 

So what? Now he's got R23.5k tied up. Who's problem/risk is that? Surely not yours.

It is simple really: if you think R23.5k is a bargain and you have the funds and it is what you are looking for, you will buy it.

 

The current owner now carries the risk of getting someone to buy the same bike that is now more expensive. Simple econimcs state if the demand is not there, the price will drop eventually.

 

I mean for flowers sake, the pre owned car market works 100% the same. If you are going to buy the bike then buy it. If not, then what the hell bru?

[Meezo]

Yeah I don't get it.

Was anyone looking to buy a BMC for R23.5k? No? So what the problem is?

 

So what? Now he's got R23.5k tied up. Who's problem/risk is that? Surely not yours.

It is simple really: if you think R23.5k is a bargain and you have the funds and it is what you are looking for, you will buy it.

 

The current owner now carries the risk of getting someone to buy the same bike that is now more expensive. Simple econimcs state if the demand is not there, the price will drop eventually.

 

I mean for flowers sake, the pre owned car market works 100% the same. If you are going to buy the bike then buy it. If not, then what the hell bru?

 

buy it to sell it...?

[MJ the Expat]

buy it to sell it...?

I know, it is a radical concept...

[Grey Hubs]

I know, it is a radical concept...

Sadly you are 100% correct...

But for a strange reason, I feel the Hub is a place where most people are as passionate about riding and equipment as I am. I prefer to buy and sell in this type of communal environment instead of Gumtree. Yes probably Idealist, but why else trade here?

We are all looking for that bargain or perfect bike to "take" us to the next level (thanks to marketing hype mainly...). It just does not sit well with me when I see an attempt of blatant excessive profit gain on the same community you purchased the item. I can't see how this improves the community of the hub in any way.

Or are the classifieds just an extension of the Junkmail, nothing more...

[BigDL]

Sadly you are 100% correct...

But for a strange reason, I feel the Hub is a place where most people are as passionate about riding and equipment as I am. I prefer to buy and sell in this type of communal environment instead of Gumtree. Yes probably Idealist, but why else trade here?

We are all looking for that bargain or perfect bike to "take" us to the next level (thanks to marketing hype mainly...). It just does not sit well with me when I see an attempt of blatant excessive profit gain on the same community you purchased the item. I can't see how this improves the community of the hub in any way.

Or are the classifieds just an extension of the Junkmail, nothing more...

 

That's the question. Do you differentiate the classifieds from the forum community or are they the same thing? Personally I rarely, if ever, look at the classifieds, even when I lived in SA, but would be interested to know if there is a large contingent that looks at the classifieds and has zero interest in the community aspect?

[MJ the Expat]

Sadly you are 100% correct...

But for a strange reason, I feel the Hub is a place where most people are as passionate about riding and equipment as I am. I prefer to buy and sell in this type of communal environment instead of Gumtree. Yes probably Idealist, but why else trade here?

We are all looking for that bargain or perfect bike to "take" us to the next level (thanks to marketing hype mainly...). It just does not sit well with me when I see an attempt of blatant excessive profit gain on the same community you purchased the item. I can't see how this improves the community of the hub in any way.

Or are the classifieds just an extension of the Junkmail, nothing more...

You know what is sad?

 

Say you are out bargain hunting and you come across a BMC for R23.5k. You as a frequent buyer and expert in the prices of bikes immediately spot this as a bargain - something sold below market value.

 

Since we are talking ethics, would it then not be the ethical thing to do and say to the seller: You know what, this bike is actually worth R32.5k. So let me do the ethical thing and buy it from you for the higher price?

 

In my point above you as the buyer is ripping the seller off knowingly - but it is ok because it suits you. So how do you argue ethics one way but not the other?

 

You said blatantly excessive profit: The price of anything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it and not what the seller asks for it. If the price you ask is to high and no one ever buys what you are selling, then you were never planning on selling it anyway.

 

This is not ethics, it plain economics.

[BaGearA]

You know what is sad?

 

Say you are out bargain hunting and you come across a BMC for R23.5k. You as a frequent buyer and expert in the prices of bikes immediately spot this as a bargain - something sold below market value.

 

Since we are talking ethics, would it then not be the ethical thing to do and say to the seller: You know what, this bike is actually worth R32.5k. So let me do the ethical thing and buy it from you for the higher price?

 

In my point above you as the buyer is ripping the seller off knowingly - but it is ok because it suits you. So how do you argue ethics one way but not the other?

 

You said blatantly excessive profit: The price of anything is worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it and not what the seller asks for it. If the price you ask is to high and no one ever buys what you are selling, then you were never planning on selling it anyway.

 

This is not ethics, it plain economics.

this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^