Dopers suck

[Jewbacca]

58 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

 

Sorry - should be more specific - thinking about the local SA scene

I'm not sure about the intricacies, but The Gear change and the Plett bike shop are quite prominent in their various local scenes

 

[mecheng89]

4 hours ago, Pieter-za said:

Anybody read Guns & Needles written by Clinton van der Berg re doping in SA sport?

About to order it on Loot.

[Frosty]

9 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

So, ban Russia from the Olymics for running a coordinated PED scheme for athletes across the board..... Then invite them to the Olympics under the OC flag.

This was only ever going to end one way.

Why ban them in the first place? Why re-invite them?

The Olympics is such a farce. How can a doper be allowed to compete? Vinokourov coming back to win gold in 2012 grates me. 

Surely if you are caught doping you get banned from the olympics for life? Or is the Olympic Spirit flag only relevant when it involves people who suck and get slow clapped because they need the smaller nations to buy in and send athletes with absolutely no chance of winning?

The Olympics should just die. It's ethics are so skewed, both in who is competing, how it is run/set up and who earns all the money.

FIFA and the IOC are filthy. They make the Guptas and our government look like small change chumps

 

I only watch the Olympics for the sports we don't often see.

With my endurance sport knowledge I've gained over the last year, I have a new found interest in some other endurance sports, eg. the winter olympic events like cross country skiing and speed skating, to name a few. The fact that track cycling and speed skating both have team and individual pursuit and how they compare is quite fascinating. Problem is that we don't get to see it outside of the Olympics.

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I only watch the Olympics for the sports we don't often see.

With my endurance sport knowledge I've gained over the last year, I have a new found interest in some other endurance sports, eg. the winter olympic events like cross country skiing and speed skating, to name a few. The fact that track cycling and speed skating both have team and individual pursuit and how they compare is quite fascinating. Problem is that we don't get to see it outside of the Olympics.

Yeah.. I do love some of the obscure sports. I just despise what the Olympics is behind the scenes.

The sports are rad. 

[Danger Dassie]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/olympics/opinion/2022/02/11/beijing-2022-welcome-to-the-kamila-valieva-legal-funhouse-minus-the-fun.html

[Danger Dassie]

3 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

I'm not sure about the intricacies, but The Gear change and the Plett bike shop are quite prominent in their various local scenes

 

Meaning David George and Kevin Evans?

As much as they’re central to those businesses, those businesses do also put back into cycling and employ a number of people. 

Not sure that carries the best example. It’s one of those things that people must make their own individual peace with.

As long as they’re not involved with the administration of the sport. But then this does go back to the post with Bonnie Ford’s assessment. People actually don’t give a ****, even (especially?) so called anti-doping pundits.

[jcza]

2 hours ago, Danger Dassie said:

Meaning David George and Kevin Evans?

As much as they’re central to those businesses, those businesses do also put back into cycling and employ a number of people. 

Not sure that carries the best example. It’s one of those things that people must make their own individual peace with.

As long as they’re not involved with the administration of the sport. But then this does go back to the post with Bonnie Ford’s assessment. People actually don’t give a ****, even (especially?) so called anti-doping pundits.

Like Mellow Johnny’s?

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Danger Dassie said:

Meaning David George and Kevin Evans?

As much as they’re central to those businesses, those businesses do also put back into cycling and employ a number of people. 

Not sure that carries the best example. It’s one of those things that people must make their own individual peace with.

As long as they’re not involved with the administration of the sport. But then this does go back to the post with Bonnie Ford’s assessment. People actually don’t give a ****, even (especially?) so called anti-doping pundits.

and actually pretty decent people if you look past their doping indiscretions...

As fans we really need to move on from the past and look at stopping the future dopers. The guys from the past can play a key role in helping stamp the sh*t out of the sport for good.

and believe it or not, these guys also know how to train, how to get the mental game right. They have participated at the top of the sport.  Talent and hard work was still part of the recipe for their success, not just the dope.Those clean elements are useful to coaching to clean sport.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water

[Eldron]

29 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

and actually pretty decent people if you look past their doping indiscretions...

As fans we really need to move on from the past and look at stopping the future dopers. The guys from the past can play a key role in helping stamp the sh*t out of the sport for good.

and believe it or not, these guys also know how to train, how to get the mental game right. They have participated at the top of the sport.  Talent and hard work was still part of the recipe for their success, not just the dope.Those clean elements are useful to coaching to clean sport.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water

Throw them out with the bath water, tub and anything else they cling to.

Whether they're decent human beings or not has nothing to do with it. They sh@t all over the sport and deserve no part in it whatsoever.

[Jewbacca]

One accepted his sanction and moved on, one lied and got Emma Sadleir to send lawyer letters to anyone who even mentioned his name and doping in the same sentence, never served a ban while actively racing at the top of his game AND rode unsanctioned events while banned and accepted prize money.

Both are cheats and I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near them in a mentor/coach/person of influence capacity, however nice they are now.

The cycling industry in SA is littered with companies and people who have fleeced us in the past. The price fixing fiasco, ex dopers etc all still openly supported while having knowingly cheated and lied to us.

By all means, change, be rad people who admit their mistakes and grow etc, but if a bikehub user caused half the trouble they have, he would be chased out of town so hard he would never be able to come back. 

[Trashy]

Same people that continue to support and defend "ex" dopers will complain all day about the lack accountability in government.

[justinafrika]

Matthieu Reeb, Director General of the Court of Arbitration for Sport a few minutes ago:   “...have decided to let Ms Kamila Valieva continue her participation in the winter Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022.  The panel is well aware of the rule regarding mandatory provisional suspensions but has determined that the athlete should benefit from the following exceptional circumstances. First, the athlete is under 16 and is a protected person under the world anti-doping code.  The anti-doping rules of RUSADA and the World Anti-Doping Code are silent with respect to provisional suspension imposed on protected persons.  … lower sanctions in the case of protected persons… …the provisional suspension would have imposed serious damage… …would be unfair on the members of the team who did not test positive… …preventing the athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances…"

Soooo, don’t dope unless you’re under 16!?  Edit:  Don’t dope your athletes unless they’re under 16?

Edited February 14, 2022 by justinafrika

[DieselnDust]

3 minutes ago, justinafrika said:

Matthieu Reeb, Director General of the Court of Arbitration for Sport a few minutes ago:   “...have decided to let Ms Kamila Valieva continue her participation in the winter Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022.  The panel is well aware of the rule regarding mandatory provisional suspensions but has determined that the athlete should benefit from the following exceptional circumstances. First, the athlete is under 16 and is a protected person under the world anti-doping code.  The anti-doping rules of RUSADA and the World Anti-Doping Code are silent with respect to provisional suspension imposed on protected persons.  … lower sanctions in the case of protected persons… …the provisional suspension would have imposed serious damage… …would be unfair on the members of the team who did not test positive… …preventing the athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances…"

Soooo, don’t dope unless you’re under 16!?

Thats how rugby operates 

[Jewbacca]

Just now, justinafrika said:

Matthieu Reeb, Director General of the Court of Arbitration for Sport states they "have decided to let Ms Kamila Valieva continue her participation in the winter Olympic Games in Beijing in 2022.  The panel is well aware of the rule regarding mandatory provisional suspensions but has determined that the athlete should benefit from the following exceptional circumstances. First, the athlete is under 16 and is a protected person under the world anti-doping code.  The anti-doping rules of RUSADA and the World Anti-Doping Code are silent with respect to provisional suspension imposed on protected persons.  … lower sanctions in the case of protected persons… …the provisional suspension would have imposed serious damage… …would be unfair on the members of the team who did not test positive… …preventing the athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances…"

Soooo, don’t dope unless you’re under 16!?

Wasn't this age clause one of the reasons they then also tried to institute a minimum age limit to certain things after China had entire teams of pre-pubescent gymnasts?

I seem to recall there were a few reasons behind them only wanting 'adults' or those who have hit puberty to compete. One being the above, and a few others being the ability to heal faster, train with less fear, be easier to manipulate and more difficult to test accurately. (This is off the top of my head, so there will be mistakes)

 

[Danger Dassie]

It’s disingenuous to suggest, even with sarcasm that one doesn’t dope because they’re under age.

But the fact is that they’re a minor and the sporting code of protection is supposed to enable a safety net for this. There’s a broader issue at play that requires focus than just the athlete in question.

It also highlights the general problem with anti-doping, and much of the discourse.

Refer back to Bonnie Ford and Ross Tucker commentary.

[dave303e]

3 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Thats how rugby operates 

in 2018/2019, 6/16 doping offences for the entire year were at craven week. Schoolboy rugby is arguably one of the dirtiest sports around. This will set a massive precedent