'Dale Posted September 10, 2016 Posted September 10, 2016 But has Die Muishond tested it?He was special tech adviser to Sram in the RnD phaseHence the price tag EmptyB 1
ZakAttak Posted September 10, 2016 Posted September 10, 2016 But has Die Muishond tested it?Die Muishond uses a fixie rigid mountain bike EmptyB 1
Iwan Kemp Posted January 25, 2017 Author Posted January 25, 2017 New product video Pieterlab1 and Heel Drop 2
eddy Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Yep....gear gaps but 1x has so many advantagesThis is a genuine question as I still run 2x10 on my XC bike. Other than it looks cool and removes the need for being able to use a FD, why is having a narrower range with bigger jumps better ?
Monark Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Eddy you have hit the nail on the head. It's not. The converts will however tell you that you just "don't understand" when explaining why it is better.
Heel Drop Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Eddy you have hit the nail on the head. It's not. The converts will however tell you that you just "don't understand" when explaining why it is better.I had chain suck once with a 2 x in muddy conditions and could not complete the race1 x never had that issues ever again - that was the reason why I changed and loved the simplicity ever since - so for me personally its better Lone_Ranger 1
JXV Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) This is a genuine question as I still run 2x10 on my XC bike. Other than it looks cool and removes the need for being able to use a FD, why is having a narrower range with bigger jumps better ?Eddy Yeah....gearing wise 2x10 is better....more range than all but maybe Eagle and smaller steps so it is easier to get a good speed and rhythm when climbing and also more top end but here are the pros of 1x- lighter by about 400g- new systems offer almost the range of 2x. If you are really fit or ride in less mountainous areas you may not need the full 2x10 / 2x11 range anyway. - no chain drops on my setup in over 2 years- can mount my dropper lever on the left under the bar where the front shifter used to be. ergonomically this is way better than all other options- less cables- 1x is quiet....really quiet- better chainring clearance over logs and stuff. I only have the one bike but if I had an XC bike and a trail bike it would be 2x10/2x11 on the XC and 1x11 on the trail bike. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Edited January 25, 2017 by JXV NickGM and eddy 2
Rudi Pollard Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 If you are going to compare numbers of 2x10 to 1x12 you will arrive at a very similar range for both with no clear answer as to which one to go for. Over the past 4 years I have gone from 2x10 to 1x11 to 1x12. Yes the range is similar but for me the main benefits are:1) No chainsuck2) Simplicity and clean handlebar3) smoother shifting4) Drivetrain wear The 1x systems wear a lot better for me personally than the 2x systems. The new eagle drivetrain thus far has been awesome in this regard. Yes it is expensive but according to me it is worth it. The new Eagle shifting performance is beyond awesome. Difficult to put down in words but the feel is the best I have ever had on a bike. eddy, Heel Drop and JXV 3
Iwan Kemp Posted January 25, 2017 Author Posted January 25, 2017 ... why is having a narrower range with bigger jumps better ? 1x12 has the same ratio as 2x10 Rudi Pollard and Heel Drop 2
Alouette3 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 1x12 has the same ratio as 2x10Â Same a ratio, but in 12 (1x12) steps rather then a smoother 20 (2x10) steps is what he is saying... JXV 1
Iwan Kemp Posted January 25, 2017 Author Posted January 25, 2017 Same a ratio, but in 12 (1x12) steps rather then a smoother 20 (2x10) steps is what he is saying... He was saying "why is having a narrower range with bigger jumps better". I replied to the narrower range bit. To comment on the jumps:Eagle goes+2+2 +2+2+3+3+4+4+4+6+8 2x10 Goes+3+2+2+2+2+3+3+4+4 So only really the last 2 gears that have a bigger jump - two gears that a 10 speed drivetrain does not have so looking at the 10 vs FIRST 10 you're in the same boat really.  2020's 13 speed will solve that... That leaves you with all the benefits listed above+ similar jump+ similar range What were the pros of 2x10 again..? Rudi Pollard 1
Rudi Pollard Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Everyone against 1X drivetrains go with the argument of jumps between gears. This is a paper based argument. Have you actually ridden a 1X drivetrain to feel what those jumps feel like.  I have never had an issue with a shift being to big... Then if you look at the percentages between gears on the eagle the actual biggest jump is between the 10 and 12 tooth... The rest is very similar between systems   Edited January 25, 2017 by Rudi Pollard
lechatnoir Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 What were the pros of 2x10 again..?  What's the Eagle XX1 cost again? Barend de Arend and Baracuda 2
V12man Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 This is a genuine question as I still run 2x10 on my XC bike. Other than it looks cool and removes the need for being able to use a FD, why is having a narrower range with bigger jumps better ?The point is that 1x12 with a 10/50 cassette and 34 chainring is in terms of effective gear range the same as a 1x10 with 11/36 and 24/38 chainrings - so from a low speed and top speed point of view they are effectively the same setup. One can look at the inter gear ratio's on the clusters and see how they compare: XX1 Eagle - biggest inter gear hop is 20%, smallest 12.5%11/35 cluster - biggest inter gear hop is 18.18% and smallest 11.76% BUT - this does not really reflect reality perfectly because ito effective gear ratio it depends what chainring you are using on the 2x10 setup (which gives you 20 theoretical gears to use) but in practical terms you would be running very cross chained for some of them, and to use all of the available ratios you have to so some fancy footwork using the front derailleur too (to all intents and purposes you won't actually do this unless you are using the automation a Di2 setup might give you) So the trick would be to build what are the 12 most usable gears on a 2x10 system and see how they compare to a 1 x 12 setup ito inter gear ration differences - this is harder to do than it sounds without an assumption or two - so I initially assumed you could use the top 6 gears on the small chainring and the bottom 6 gears on the large one to avoid massive cross chaining (although on a 1 x 12 you could argue that the cross chaining effect always exists, so that assumption does not really work, and clearly isn't the best). Then I assumed that you can do a 2 gear cassette change (up or down) and a chainring change at effectively the same time on the 2x10 and built a theoretical 12 speed cassette based on this to optimise the inter gear differences. Guess what happened..... eddy and JXV 2
JXV Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Everyone against 1X drivetrains go with the argument of jumps between gears. This is a paper based argument. Have you actually ridden a 1X drivetrain to feel what those jumps feel like.  I have never had an issue with a shift being to big... Then if you look at the percentages between gears on the eagle the actual biggest jump is between the 10 and 12 tooth... The rest is very similar between systemsyes I have and the jumps are bigger when compared to 2x10 or 2x11 in smaller climbing chainring. You have to take the overall gearing of both the chainring and the cassette into account. In the climbing gears, a 2x system gives 4 choices where a 1x system offers 3 over the same span of ratios - see Iwan's table of overall ratios in a previous post. This means the jumps between the lower gears in the 1x system average about 33% larger than in an equivalent 2x system. And I can feel it when climbing. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Edited January 25, 2017 by JXV Alouette3 1
Spoke101 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 What's the Eagle XX1 cost again?  What does 2x10 XX, XTR or XTR Di2 cost? JXV 1
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